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In fact, I'm willing to bet that other components in your system would provide the weaker link before the high end receiver (unless you have ultra high end speakers, transports, etc) I don't think it would be high end if it didn't cost more.A lot of receivers don't give you true power ratings anymore either.And to compare to tube gear.... |
Arcam may be ok for a receiver.It would be nice if they would give you the true power ratings at 20-20k all channels driven.A 80 watt amp is not going to drive a lot of speakers
that fall into the high end category.I don't believe it can give true class A at 30 wpc. Nobody listens to 1 khz only. A telephone does better than that.Arcam link.[http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,fmj,av-amplifiers,AVR600.htm#]Link to test specs.[http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/arcam_avr600_av_receiver/index3.html] |
Correction for my last post.I should have said,true Class A at 20 watts per channel,all channels driven.Not some form of Class A whatever that is. |
10-04-10: Aberyclark
I believe a $500 a/v receiver will sound just as good as a $500 2 channel receiver or amp.
How may can you find that will drive 4 ohm speakers.A lot of mid-fi,and high end speakers are 4 ohms. |
10-18-10: Aberyclark
I always thought all the preamp features is what made a/v receivers less desirable When you find out your 100 wpc receiver only puts out 30-70 wpc,and won't drive your speakers,at least you have the option of hooking up a real amp to it.That way everything is not lost.Research,and read reviews before buying. |
Some examples of the power ratings they use for receivers.
Marantz,$1250. Their rating 110watts.[http://us.marantz.com/Products/2980.asp]
Tested [http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/marantz_sr6004_av_receiver/index4.html]Pioneer Elite.$2200,140watts.Tested About 107 watts.[http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/pioneer_elite_sc-27_av_receiver/index4.html]Denon $3000,140 watts.[http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=3d9614d1-8000-4106-ab91-8192242cab83&SubId=40b5820d-83c2-4e93-9909-60aae60e0bdd&ProductId=14c37b13-44c8-4d7b-9b5d-5316e646e7b7]Tested 31 watts![http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/denon_avr-4810ci_av_receiver/index4.html]Sherwood,only$450,Sounds like 110 watts,Tested,5 watts![http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/sherwood_rd-7503_av_receiver/index3.html]Replace high end? Its getting more common. |
Factory links I missed above.[http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/SC-27.pdf] [http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_rd7503.html][http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=3d9614d1-8000-4106-ab91-8192242cab83&SubId=40b5820d-83c2-4e93-9909-60aae60e0bdd&ProductId=14c37b13-44c8-4d7b-9b5d-5316e646e7b7] |
Who listens only to 1khz.It appears that is where the power is.Not at the normal 20-20khz range that people try to get as close to,for reproducing music.ML speakers have a habit of dipping down to a lower impedance than that.It sounds like a total mismatch,not recommended by Bob Carver.That is the phony power loophole they are using these days.That is another reason as to why A/V receivers aren't going to replace
someones hi end two channel.No Sunfire in this HT system. Maybe you could persuade him to change over.But then,you havn't,have you?[http://www.hometheaterdesignmag.com/208great/] |
I wonder if its a good time to invest in a B&W. [http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1287610844&read&keyw&zzb&k] |
Sounds like Sunfire chokes on power also.[http://www.ultimateavmag.com/content/sunfire-ultimate-ii-av-receiver-measurements] |
Seven times most parts (except overworked power supply),versus two times for a stereo amp.Would one think they are going to be of the same quality?When high volume products are sold,a fraction of a penny savings ads up to the company doing the building.The budget that these are in,will reap you more benefits building a two channel only system,IMO.The OP of the thread also included a tube amp.A receiver isn't going to come close to satisfying that customer.You might be able to get by with one yourself,but it isn't going to happen with me.I doubt this thread will convince any audiophile reading it to do so.That Sunfire can't handle 4 ohm speakers very well.That test was at 1khz,not 20-20khz.It failed on dummy loads,at 1khz,besides a lot of audiophile speakers.With a real audiophile,I can't even think of it happening.A second system,that can happen for some.Then there's the sound of it,if you can match speakers to it,that will satisfy an audiophile.Just my opinion. |
The Ultimate drove 7 electrostats, which was no easy task, with ease. I'm guessing it wasn't Martin Logans.[http://www.martinlogan.com/products/source] |
What model ML speakers? Not going against the designer recommendations of a piece of audio gear,isn't being closed minded,in my book. |
10-22-10: Coltrane1
Bummer! B&K is toast!!!???
I'm getting this info just days AFTER acquiring a 507 S2 receiver. Oh well, time to blow it out if there's not going to be any support for a bit. It's been confirmed that ATI is buying all of B&K's assets.
So the question now becomes how will ATI eventually support B&K owner's needing repairs?
Coltrane1 (Threads | Answers | This Thread)
More personal interest for talking people into buying the B&K. |
In this instance your stats have failed you. Citing irrelevant reviews to somehow bolster a false belief system as it pertains to a particular product doesn't change reality. Most Sunfire products work fabulously. From your own admission you've no personal experience with the product being mentioned. Therefore you've no real opinion to share regarding Sunfire product other than a bias against it. That much is clear to anyone.
Did I state that I have no knowledge of Sunfire products? You never provided a model number for the seven ML speakers you state from your personal experience,driven with the receiver your speaking of here.I never said a Sunfire amp would have trouble driving them.I know the amp does.That is another advantage separates have.You stated the Ultimate II receiver,that I'm referring to.Do you know more about this receiver,than Bob Carver himself does?Do people on the net that use seven of them,against Bob Carver recommendations? Are one of these receivers now your source,instead of your prior amps?Your main system?Your the one recommending to others to do this. |
I also think if your going to try this,(an A/V system for all), why not go with separates?If you have a separate processor,and amps,at least the amps will have a lot more years of usage ahead of them,at least from the view of not being outdated so soon. This way,you could replace the processor,and keep the still serviceable amps. |
>>What model ML speakers<< To complicated? |
Something you don't know is the Sunfire gear was produced 6 miles from my home. I've met Bob, he's been in my home. Bob believes his amps excel at driving ML's. It's not a big deal, he's a normal guy like all of us. I stand by my statement. The Ultimate is good enuf to stand alone for anyone who desires a quality receiver to do it all. It even has a phono input. Case closed, except for naysayers that don't know the product.
Coltrane1 (Threads | Answers | This Thread)
Sounds like you may a personal interest in getting people to buy one. |
Coltrane1,The Sunfire Ultimate wouldn't drive seven ML speakers,and it would be nice to know what seven ML speakers yours drove without any problems.Would you want someone spending their money to find out,the receiver has a problem driving some 4 ohm speakers times seven?The magazine review confirmed that also. According to your other thread,*you* are not happy with the USA.I was not talking politics.Is the Sunfire made in the USA? |
Do as I say,not as I do.Its not good enough for me,but I'm telling you it is good enough for you.That is the idea I'm getting from Coltane1.As a retired law enforcement official ,he is used to giving orders.If he changed over to a receiver for all system ,then he may be a little more convincing.
Coltrane1,I have heard the receiver.I can say that it is not high end to my ears,and others.Switch over yourself,since you keep saying how good it is. |
