AudioQuest DBS Field

Audioquest countered that such a test would not reveal anything since the purpose of the battery's electric field is to keep the dialectic formed, and once formed it takes days or weeks to unform.

"Dielectric forming" is nonsense. At least in this context.

I think it got started when someone heard about dielectric forming with regard to aluminum electrolytic caps and didn't quite understand what that was about and so came to believe that all dielectrics somehow need "forming."

With aluminum electrolytic capacitors, the dielectric is the layer of aluminum oxide on the aluminum foil used for the plates of the capacitor.

When these caps are new, the manufacturer applies a voltage to them which causes a current to flow through the cap (not the same thing as current flow during the charging of a cap). Basically they're anodizing the foil. As the aluminum oxide layer builds up, the current diminishes.

So you're literally "forming" the dielectric of the capacitor.

However none of this applies to other dielectrics such as plastics.

Interesting thing though about polarizing a dielectric that's situated between two conductors...

It's the same principle used to make condenser microphones.

*picking up cable* Check one two... Check one two... Can you hear me back there? *THUMP!* *THUMP!* *THUMP!*

;)

Keithr

you can read a much more detailed analysis on the US Patent website---Bill Low patented this technology.

First, a patent doesn't mean anything. You can patent anything you want. It doesn't have to work or even do what you claim it does.

Second, there's no analysis at all in the DBS patent (7,126,055 for those interested). Low simply makes a number of unsubstantiated claims. You might as well read their marketing literature.

I did find one thing of note in the patent however that relates to something I'd said previously:

"In other words, and as indicated above, cables of this type may be thought of as long capacitors being gradually charged (i.e., "formed") by the electrical signal as the signal is communicated along a conductor surrounded by an insulating dielectric material."

This makes it pretty clear that Low has a rather basic misunderstanding with regard to dielectric "forming" and doesn't realize that this is something that only relates to aluminum electrolytic capacitors.

Tvad

Simply_q is a manufacturer of interconnects and speaker cables called Q Cables. Correct, Steve?

Yes.

This should be disclosed considering Simply_q spends a great deal of time participating in threads about cables.

Sure. Though I believe if I disclose it, it would constitute advertising which is prohibited in the forums.

Paulsax

Much of the discussion that I've seen is utilizing the equations for relaxation on systems subject to external E&M fields. Seems like a misuse of concept but.....

That's pretty common. Taking a grain of truth and extrapolating it beyond all reason.

Makes for great ad copy though. :)

Keithr

btw, Simply Q---would you care to disclose why you only respond to cable oriented threads on Audiogon?

I don't. I've also responded to threads having nothing to do with cables.

It is true however that most of my responses have been to cable threads, but that's simply because there tend to be far more dubious claims made with regard to cables.

Kijanki

Paulsax - Maybe not physical changes in dielectric but forming and orienting dipoles in presence of electric field.

The dipoles would already be present. The electric field doesn't create them, it simply polarizes them.

And why would you want to polarize them? What exactly is the "problem" that their not being polarized brings about? Why would you want to turn a cable into the equivalent of a condenser microphone?

Paulsax

so in this case the right question (or maybe next question) to ask is what is the dipole creation and dissolution time in this sort of material...

It's not about creation and dissolution. It's about polarization. The dipoles already exist in the material itself. Under normal conditions their orientations will be random. However under the influence of an electric field, they will tend to align with the polarity of the field.

What no one has come up with so far is a good explanation of just what the underlying problem is. What is it about these randomly oriented dipoles that causes a "problem" that it needs to be "cured" by polarizing them.

Kijanki

Paulsax - depolarization into random state is called relaxation. Dependent on material it can take from relatively short time to a year. Some materials might be permanently polarized. They are called electrets. Electrets can be natural, like quartz or artificially made my melting material and cooling it in electrostatic field.

Great. Now explain just what its significance is with regard to an audio cable.

Science behind it is very complicated and many things can be affected. I will leave it to Cable companies.

The cable companies are good at coming up with new Bogey Men to make people afraid of and to offer talisman to keep those Bogey Men at bay.

But where they fall pathetically short is demonstrating that there's actually a problem to be dealt with in the first place.

And if they can't do that, then really all they're offering is marketing.

As for people who don't believe that cables make a difference and post on cable forum it reminds me story about deaf many who answered add for music teacher just to tell them they shouldn't count on him.

And much of the cable industry today reminds me of the peddlers of patent medicines back in the 18th century.

Johnnyb53

Gee yeah. Here's the sum total of Simply_q's participation on A-gon. If you comb through it closely enough, you may find one or two posts about grounding or power distribution. The rest are devoted to setting the rest of us straight in a cable discussion forum.

So what? What has any of that to do with anything I've said beside nothing at all?

Take it to the bank that he's never compared AQ with DBS on or off, which is what the OP asked for.

I wasn't responding directly to the OP. I was responding to claims posted about DBS. If you have any problems with anything I've said, then address what I've said instead of playing ad hominem games.

Johnnyb53

I think the mods and A-goners can tell the difference between disclaimers and self-promotion.

Other dealers and manufacturers self-disclose and post regularly without issue.

Ok.

So should this disclaimer go in every cable-related post or would the first post in a cable-related thread be sufficient?

Kijanki

It wouldn't be right for me to say that AQ doesn't know what they doing (or cheat people) because I cannot hear the difference.

It would be out of this world arrogance to say that it cannot work and doesn't make sense without even listening.

The physics and the objective claims made about DBS are wholly irrespective of whether or not anyone listens to the cables.

Keithr

Hit me up offline.

Hey baby, what's your sign?

Oh, wait, you said offline.

How embarrassing. ;)