No, I use ASIO .dll with Foobar and the Transit drivers. I upsample to 24/96 using SRC. I've tried other sample rates, including 88.2. They just dont sound as good as SRC at 24/96, particularly piano, which sounds very live. |
If you are wanting to go USB to coax S/PDIF, why not just do only that? The M-Audio Transit or the Edirol boards can be modded to give you virtually jitter-free digital out. Either one can also be installed inside a DAC, eliminating the S/PDIF cable.
I use one of these modified converters with my laptop and Foobar for playback. Foobar and the driver work together to upsample to 24/96. If your DAC can handle this, it is significantly better than the best transport on the market, not "just as good". It is even better than using a DAC to do the upsampling. I have compared 16/44.1 .wav playback to iTunes playback (also can do this) and the 24/96 upsampled by the computer. iTunes is definitely better than 44.1 .wav, but the 24/96 is even better. Forget about "bit-perfect" 44.1. Go with the 24/96 or iTunes and make sure that the converter and DAC supports these.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer |
Edsilva - If you open the volume control for windows using control panel, do the sliders have any effect on the audio??
Just wondering if KMIXER is bypassed.
Steve N. |
Kfreichen - to answer your question, I now offer two products, the Off-Ramp Turbo and the Freeway that are modified Transit boards with external power supplies. I also offer a battery power supply for them. They both convert USB to digital coax, but the Off-Ramp has a Superclock3 as master clock. These are very low jitter sources that can pass 24/96 data upsampled by Foobar.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer/modder |
Edsilva - I mod a LOT of different DAC's, and upsampling engines, including the P-1A, Benchmark DAC-1 and the DIP, so I get to hear the output quality of these hardware and firmware upsamplers.
The Secret Rabbit Code (SRC) upsampler with Foobar2000 is simply the best that I have heard, when played through my Off-Ramp converters. Software upsampling will always be more flexible for generating upsampling algorithms. Hardware and firmware implementations have limitations that software does not have. These algorithms are not trivial to implement in hardware, even using DSP engines.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer/modder |
How is transit stock? Pretty good quality?
It only has Toslink out - not so great.
Why is the mod necessary and how do we do it?
The mod changes the Toslink to coax, improves the edge-rates, isolates with a pulse transformer and matches the impedance precisely. It also adds a modified Superclock3. Quite technical, this mod, and a LOT of surface-mount work.
Also, can you explain how to upsample in foobar or itune?
This is explained on the computer audio page of my website:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com
Do they do it automatically, or do we have to do something?
You have to select resampling in Foobar preferences - see the website for instructions and screen-shots.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer/modder |
Edsilva - I look at a PC as a general purpose tool, and a very flexible one. It is like having a set of adapters and sockets with a socket wrench rather than a set of open-end wrenches. The sockets can get into tighter spots and the sockets are interchangeable. You can change the way that the socket wrenches work and their configurations. The open-end wrenches are good, but have limitations. They only work one way with fixed sizes.
DSP processors have certain ways of doing data manipulation. They can be faster at doing some things than software. Software really has no functional limitations, just the size and latency/speed of the code. Hardware is the most limiting for implementing upsampling codes. This is why hardware implementations are usually outdated quickly and do not sound as good. Not that a good code could not be implemented in hardware. |
Onhwy61 - I have used and modded the Big Ben. I found it to work exceptionally well for reducing jitter. The effect was immediately noticable. Deciding whether it is worth the price for what it does is up to each individual. It also has the benefit of displaying the input sample rate. |
Edsilva - does your waveterminal have a driver that you load on the PC? |
"At the moment, what you suggest seems like the way to go: PC card outputting upsampled digital via AES/EBU, with card driven by DAC wordclock."
The problem with PC add-in cards is the PC power supply and grounding. The external box will be quieter and have lower jitter. It can also be battery powered, which improves things considerably.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer/modder |
Gonglee wrote:
"How is transit stock? Pretty good quality?"
Not really. Only has Toslink output.
Why is the mod necessary and how do we do it?
To eliminate the Toslink output and improve the power and clock. Really difficult mod unless you are a professional reworker.
Also, can you explain how to upsample in foobar or itune?
This is explained on my website on the "Computer Audio" webpage: http://www.empiricalaudio.com . All of the links are there. If you need ASIO for Foobar2000, just send me an email and I will send it to you.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer/modder |
Kfreichen - the modded Transit is a product that I sell. It has a modified Superclock3, improved power, including Black Gates and the Toslink is replaced with coax output. I chose the Transit because it has some of the best drivers, does not require switching to do 24/96 and passes most all formats, including MP3 and AC3. more info is at:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com
I'm not the only modder using the Transit. My mods are the most technical though. Several manufacturers use this as their reference source. |
Edsilva - I found the Edirol UA-25 to be fairly good, but great after I modded it. I only used the Edirol in "advanced" mode to output 24/96, which uses a custom driver on the PC rather than the windows driver, which is terrible.
If the Waveterminal passes 44.1, then this would make sense. It must use a custom driver.
The driver makes the biggest difference in sound, but it is also important to bypass windows Kmixer with ASIO plug-in for Foobar2000. If you dont have ASIO plug-in for Foobar2000 just email me and I will send it to you. You can tell if you are going through Kmixer by bringing up the windows volume controls and see if any of the sliders affect the volume while you are playing music. If they do, then you are still going through Kmixer. You need ASIO.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer/modder
nugent@empiricalaudio.com |
Edsilva - have you had much trouble with pops and ticks with ASIO and Foobar?
Is it the ASIO .dll or ASIO4ALL? |
Is ASIO something they could have licensed and baked into the ESI24.dll driver?
Very possible. |
Edsilva - if you look in the "components" folder of Foobar200 in Program Files, the ASIO .dll should be there if you are using it. |
"How is transit stock? Pretty good quality?"
It's only mediocre as all stock equipment is.
"Why is the mod necessary and how do we do it?"
The mod makes it sound good. Add modded Superclock3 and change the circuit to S/PDIF output, improve power delivery/power supply. Not for amateurs.
Also, can you explain how to upsample in foobar or itune?
Foobar upsamplers are excellent, particularly SRC, also know as "Secret Rabbit Code". I bundle this with my converters since I have a license to distribute it. You save the .dll file in the "Components" folder of Foobar2000. This is all explained on my website.
Do they do it automatically, or do we have to do something?
You have to select resampler in the DSP functions of Foobar2000. They when you play anything, it upsamples to 24/96 or 24/88 (you select) as it streams.
Steve N. |
"How about a SPDIF with a Monarchy DIP? I would like to use a DAC soI just need good SPDIF output."
If you are wanting a "good S/PDIF output", this will not get it for you. It just changes the jitter. |
Others:
HagUSB, LessLoss, m-audio audiophile USB
Waveterminal is not current, not manuf. anymore.
Steve N. |
Benefits of USB - Currently the implementations are superior to networked, and most wirless networked servers do not support 24/96.
Networked is superior technically to USB because the clock is regenerated at the receiving unit. It is being held-back performance-wise by the implementations only IMO. This will change for the better in the near future.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer |
