@fleschler , that was a great party, thanks. Next time ASR should host.
Audio Science Review = Rebuttal and Further Thoughts
@crymeanaudioriver @amir_asr You are sitting there worrying if this or that other useless tweak like a cable makes a sonic difference.
I don’t worry about my equipment unless it fails. I never worry about tweaks or cables. The last time I had to choose a cable was after I purchased my first DAC and transport in 2019. I auditioned six and chose one, the Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Euphoria. Why would someone with as fulfilling a life as me worry about cables or tweaks and it is in YOUR mind that they are USELESS.
@prof "would it be safe to say you are not an electrical designer or electrical engineer? If so, under what authority do you make the following comment" - concerning creating a high end DAC out of a mediocre DAC.
Well, I have such a DAC, built by a manufacturer of equipment and cables for his and my use. It beat out a $9,000 COS Engineering D1v and $5,000 D2v by a longshot. It is comparable to an $23,000 Meridian Ultradac. Because I tried all the latter three in comparison I say this with some authority, the authority of a recording engineer (me), a manufacturer (friend) and many audiophiles who have heard the same and came to the same conclusion.
Another DAC with excellent design engineer and inferior execution is the Emotiva XDA-2. No new audio board but 7! audiophile quality regulators instead of the computer grade junk inside, similar high end power and filter caps, resistors, etc. to make this into a high end DAC on the very cheap ($400 new plus about the same in added parts).
@russ69 We must be neighbors. I frequented Woodland Hills Audio Center back in the 70s and 80s. I heard several of Arnie’s speakers including a the large Infinity speakers in a home.
Showing 34 responses by kota1
@prof I am very interested in your data, if you got it, post it in the system page in your profile. Otherwise I will let you go back to your rants. I really thought you could showcase something unless...... |
@curtdr , sadly those other ASR members will never get to hear or enjoy those great Klipsch speakers to decide for themselves. You go online and read glowing user reviews from people who own them and the shell shocked minions think that happiness is a defect of the customer instead of the value of the speaker, crazy.
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Question, someone spends $20K on a system and the other guy spends $50K. The guy that spent $20K has components that measure meh, but his in room system measurements are ideal. They guy that spent $50K has pristine component measurements but his in room system measurement is meh. Whose system will likely sound better? |
@prof if this is a rant, we are used to your rants by now. If this is a discussion please post your system photos, components, and measurements in your profile. If you are at your end game great, we have a thread here to discuss. If you are stuck on your journey post a concern in a new thread.
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@td_dayton , I think if you are going to measure you will want to be able to have dsp. You might want to look into the miniDSP Flex or a Paradigm Link Pre/Streamer. The measurements of my room are in my system profile if you want to take a look. I am using the paid upgrade Pro version of Audyssey with a calibrated mic. I needed to combine a well treated room with DSP, not one or the other, YMMV. |
@noske we are all willing to help here, start a new thread, post your concerns, we are there for you bro, no worries :) |
@td_dayton +1, as for the one right way I can't say about components that is true but what about the room? I think a close to a flat frequency response in the room beats willy nilly, that is a constant.
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Will all the posters with the IQ as mentioned above please post your systems with pics and measurements in your profile? Please share, it will be really interesting to see how you have applied your knowledge and experience in real life, not just in a chat room. Looking forward :) If you want to post data from your components, blind listening tests, etc. that would be a bonus.
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@prof you are a long time member and I assumed too much, understood. If you look at my profile you will see a list of components I use, pics of my rig, and my room measurements. Would you be so kind to post something similar in your profile? I am sincerely interested. Thanks |
@noske I am very interested in your system and data too, please post something. I hope you aren’t simply exaggerating either about your system or your IQ unless.... |
@holmz , I thought everyone here knew how the virtual systems page works, my bad :). As for measurements, I am not against measurements, I thought posting them would be interesting if we are discussing measurements any way right? |
@axo1989 good question, go to the link below, at the top you will see a tab "Create System" and you are on your way:
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@milpai , that is an excellent point, I would like to see some "meat on the bone" and if someone wants to talk measurements, post some of your own and then lets talk. I would always try and get the room first, the speaker placement second, the power third, the IC's 4th and NOW you should be able to actually discern the difference a quality component makes. Otherwise I don't see how you will ever get the best value of the money spent. |
@prof how about that we have something in common, the Node. I like the Bluos software and it sounds OK on my desktop. In my main system it isn't a good match. With the DAC you use it should be fine as a streamer though. Have you ever taken any measurements? |
@prof , your gear is quality stuff, agreed. Hope you can post pics sometime. I would recommend swapping out the Node for the NAD C658 streamer. It is a much better match to the higher level gear you have AND it comes with a microphone and a dsp software called DIRAC. Will take 10 minutes to run and will measure it and correct the room problems to the degree possible. I know you don't need it as a DAC but the DIRAC dsp software is worth it, even if you just use it as a streaming source. |
@axo1989 , your post is very helpful, I like how you test and move, test and move and then DSP is used to fine tune. So sad how many people think DSP is all you need. Its only when you do the speaker positioning and the room that its able to fine tune it. I see you started your virtual system, looking forward to seeing it. |
@russ69 +1 |
@jtgofish , at least there is data to support what listeners like in speakers and headphones. Do you know of any data that supports what listeners prefer in DACS? ASR seems to rank DACS by SINAD. Can anyone reading this thread (calling @amir_asr ) point me to a published study that shows that both trained and casual listeners prefer DACS with low SINAD? Without that data that list is pretty much useless in guiding purchase decisions. |
@djones51 , thanks for the link about human physiology. Please find a link that shows what listeners prefer in a DAC. Here is a white paper of what listeners prefer in headphones as an example:
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If no research exists on DAC listener preferences I have a new ranking system: eeny, meeny, miny, mo, if you like it pay and go! If you like my new ranking system go to your dealer and just start your own audition process. Until there is some research proving listeners prefer low SINAD, you might as well just skip those ranking systems. |
@djones51 , I liked your post, DAC’s are commodities, if you have a link that shows there is no listener preferences among dacs great. The number chasing guru must be on a different website, maybe you can rescue the , uhhh, "ill informed" before they buy anything that is a waste. |
I agree that you should get a flat frequency response in your room, mine is posted in my profile if anyone cares to check. There is 35 years worth of published research that listeners prefer a flat frequency response. Do I win a pink panther now? BTW, DSP is very limited in what it can correct and if you want to discuss room treatments we need to start a new thread.
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What is interesting is there is no published standard I am aware of in what listeners prefer in a dac. You can argue all you want for a $2 dac or a $4 dac, I know of no published studies. The links you posted @djones51 are anecdotal and appreciate you at least getting something. |
@ddd1 +1
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@thyname +1, too funny :)🤣 |
@thyname I know it is an accurate assessment, I can visualize an online shopper looking at graphs and clicking the Buy Now button without even knowing anything else. Think of the paradigm shift, manufacturers quickly figure out the cheapest way to make a graph look good because their market will convince themselves it sounds good because of the graph, no matter what. |
When you look at the virtual systems of members here you typically see quality rooms that are treated, quality gear, and everyone seems to be looking to share. The head panther over at ASR sticks a pair of expensive speakers in a room with nothing but dry wall, a hard floor, a microphone and a rug and to me, that is a monumental waste, of speakers, of the time spent listening, and sadly of the lost people following the pied piper over the cliff. |