Otis, I also have a Line 2 and have re-tubed it through Upscale. The back 2 tubes are Amperex 7308s with gold pins. The others are a 'different' version of Sovtek tubes as per Kevin Deal. They don't look like the stock Sovteks that I have seen in the past. These tubes make a very significant improvement in bass definition, soundstage and general musicality. I was so impressed with the tubes sound improvement that I decided not to sell my Line 2. I have never purchased a component from Kevin but I have purchased many tubes from him. He has never questioned me as to where I bought the gear either. This combination is truly a good one to look at for retubing any of the SF Line preamps. Good luck... |
I've owned both ARC and SF products. I purchased the Line 3 a year ago and never looked back as it is a perfect match with my Rowland amps. ARC gets the nod in customer support as my experience with Sonic Frontiers customer support has been pretty terrible. |
Sorry I can't make a recommendation Otis. The one NOS tube set I tried came from Kevin Deal. It consisted of 2 NOS Amperex and 4 less expensive tubes that I can't remember. I didn't care for it though. Kevin Deal does have a wealth of tube info. as I'm sure you know. Redkiwi has recommended "Bugle Boys"-- I'm not familiar with them but may try to find them. Luck. Craig |
Hi Craig: What tube compliment do you suggest, Kevin Deal says he can really make this unit sing but won't say unless you buy from him. Im thinking Brimar Otis |
Hi (again) Otis; IMO the only reason the SF Line 2 sounds sort of like solid state is because of the stock Sovtek tubes. I put in a mixed set of NOS tubes in mine and it became rich, lush, full etc.-- but quite frankly, too "tubey" for me, and I preferred the more neutral sound, (and yes drier) sound of the stock Sovteks. My point is that with tube rolling, you can radically change the sound of the SF. I suspect that this is true of most/all tube pre-amps. I intend to try another NOS set that should have a less dramatic change in sound character. Cheers. Craig. |
Hi Guys: Thanks much for your opinions to date. To clarify: I have to go with balanced connections which is why I have arrived at these two choices. Listening would indeed be the best route however it is not practical as I am buying over the internet and local shops do not lend out gear. The main criticism of SF stuff is that it is more like transistors than transistors. It may well be that AR is the same. I do want the flexability to "dial in" the sound with NOS tubes and am seeking a lush full detailed sound with a tight bottem end (don't we all want that...er, em back to audio) and sound stage. For those who asked, the system is SFCD1, Quicksilver V4's and Martin Logan SL3's. Thanks, I look forward to hearing more. |
Keep in mind the choice of tubes-they influence the sound and tube rolling can offer you the ability to tune your system to your liking-find a good dealer that offers tube choices i.e Upscale Audio. |
I have heard and owned pre-amps by both ARC and SF. I dont see how a definite recommendation can be made without knowing what the rest of your system entails, not to mention your listening environment. If what your asking is whether or not these pre-amps have the ability to produce good quaility sound reproduction, you have heard from proponents of both sides, and for what its worth, I concur. As advised, your ears are the best judge, best of luck.... |
Sold a Ref 1 and got a SF line 3. Am very happy with the trade up. Ref 1 and a previous LS2B were both too bright. The SF is totally neutral, cheaper, has better definition, resolution, and base. The one area that just can't be a matter of opinion or taste is S/N ratio. Both ARC products had ground loop problems that gave totally unacceptable 60Hz hum. I corrected the problem somewhat by using a cheater plug. When I connected a video source that was connected to my cable TV (AT&T) the hum came back big time. This means if you plan on using the preamp as any part of a home theater system... don't buy ARC.. |
I've not heard the LS 25, but have lived with the SF Line 2 for over two years. The Line 2 is tonally very neutral/accurate, ie not at all euphonic-- with the stock Sovtek tubes. So if you want that warm, "tubey" sound the Line 2 won't satisfy, but if you value tonal neutrality, the Line 2 is excellent. In addition it is detailed, smooth, and has good soundstaging. For less money, the Line 1 sounds a lot like the the Line 2 but is a little more "aggressive", and I prefer the Line 2. Also, all the Line series pre-amps have great features. If you do want a warm tubey sound, a tube change in the Line 2 is fairly inexpensive. Good Hunting. Craig. |
I've owned both ARC (SP-15) and Sonic Frontiers (Anthem Pre-1) preamps, and the CAT SL-1 III (with phono) that I'm selling on Audiogon is worlds better than either. Not to make an ad out of this comment, I agree that you should go by your own ears, if you're determined to get either ARC or Sonic Frontiers. But there are a lot of much better preamps available on the used market, like mine with its customized signal path. Good luck with your choice. |
Don't go by what people tell you! Go listen for yourself.. Everyone has different opinions and likings. I recent bought the SF Power 3, and some people or reviewers don't like them at all. But, I love them. I have heard the ARC and VTL. Yes, they are richer in midrange, but the SF excel in all of the other areas. Accuracy, speed and the dynamics. Go by you own years. I am using the Convergent Audio Tech. Ultimate preamp, it's excellent.. If you are in the price range, why don't you check these out.. They are expensive, but I feel they sound better than the REF2 ARC . Good luck. |
Don't go by what people tell you! Go listen for yourself.. Everyone has different opinions and likings. I recent bought the SF Power 3, and some people or reviewers don't like them at all. But, I love them. I have heard the ARC and VTL. Yes, they are richer in midrange, but the SF excel in all of the other areas. Accuracy, speed and the dynamics. Go by you own years. I am using the Convergent Audio Tech. Ultimate preamp, it's excellent.. If you are in the price range, why don't you check these out.. They are expensive, but I feel they sound better than the REF2 ARC . Good luck. |
I also listened to both units before buying a Sonic Frontiers Line 1 (one chassis unit). There was an audible differance. The Audio Research excelled in some areas, while the Sonic Frontiers excelled in others. The deciding factor was value. The feature-rich Line 1 offers much more value for the money than the LS 25. Good luck! |
I have heard both and could not stand the Sonic Frontiers. It sounded horrible when matched up with a tube amp. On the other extreme, the ARC was fantastic in comparison. The SF had a very closed in soundstage while the ARC was large and deep. In my mind there is no comparison, go with the ARC. |
