Audio Research Ref 5 preamp

Hi guys,

the comparison was very interesting and was done in a blind text method, the only difference being switching out pre-amps, this was done in my own set-up and I had five other individuals to assist over a four day time period and then we all met on the last day listened again.

We all agree that there are differences between them, after listing we discussed what we heard and did we feel they were substantial, jaw dropping, a nite and day difference, enough to justify the upgrade difference financially?

When we refer to this specific upgrade, we are referring to the out of pocket money currently, what a Ref3 is fetching now on the market along with buying a Ref5 for and doing the comparison as we did.

I believe it will just come down to a personal preference but non of us felt it was.

Looking at what a Ref3 is fetching now a days and then looking at the additional out of pocket money to move to a Ref5 the Ref3 is a real sweet deal, if the cost difference was closer say under $2K then that would assist making it a lot easier to justify, at least for me so if anyone can assist send me a personal message. I will say three out of the five who heard them in my set-up did not feel so and said they would be looking else where possibly the Ref Phono2 instead suggesting better to put your monies there. The other two preferred my MBL 6010D pre so go figure and that's what makes this hobby so interesting.

In the end we all got to have some laughs, share some stories, drink and eat, I got some more music pce names so it was all good.

What sonic differences did "the other two" hear that made them prefer the 6010D over the Ref3/5?

Better bass, probably?

Okay Guys,

Well, I had a chance to do an A/B comparison between the ARC Ref. 3, (which my friend has had in his system for over a year), and the ARC Ref. 5, (which a friend of his lent to him, as he was going to sell it, as the synergy between the Ref. 5 and his system was just not there apparently). My friend's system is pretty neutral, being neither warm sounding or analytical. (It is the best system I have ever heard, and the one I try to emulate with my own system.) I should also point out that he used balanced cables, (Jena Labs Pathfinders), for the inputs, and Nordost Valhalla cables for the speakers.

We listened to various music, from rock (including the new 45 rpm version of Tull's Aqualung, which is fantastic, if you have not heard it yet), to folk, (Kingston Trio), to jazz, (Webster's Soulville), to Classical (various pieces, but mostly violin concertos, which was the majority of what we listened to). We listened to this via his complete Brinkmann analog setup, (EMT cartridge, 10.5 arm and balance table). We did not listen to any digital, (either CD or SACD), as we both prefer the sound of analog.

Well, to be short and sweet, the Ref. 3 is very close to the Ref. 5 to my ears. (My friend agrees, but he felt there was more of a difference than I did, I think. Enough that he is probably going to buy the Ref. 5 from his friend, and sell his Ref. 3.) I could hear that there was a bit deeper and quicker bass response from the Ref. 5. This was fairly noticeable, but it was not a huge difference. I think if we had not done a direct A/B comparison, (i.e. if I had heard it one day and then the other the next day), I might not have picked up on it. That was the biggest difference, IMHO. (And for my friend that was enough in itself, because he feels his system is just slightly bass shy. I disagree, but it's his system, so what do I know?!)

In addition, there were some other minor differences, such as the initial impact of piano keys being just slightly faster on the Ref. 5. I also noticed that there was a bit more ambiance from the Ref. 5, (i.e. room echoes from the concert hall). But IMHO, these were very small differences.

I should also point out that the Ref. 5 does benefit, (albeit very slightly), from being placed upon a inert shelf. My friend has a Gran Prix Monaco shelving system. However, he has only one Carbon Fiber shelf, (the rest are acrylic). When the Ref. 3 was in its usual spot on this carbon fiber shelf, it sounded much closer to the Ref. 5 than when it was on the acrylic shelf and the Ref. 5 was on the carbon fiber shelf. (Yeah, go figure that it would make that much of a difference, huh?! But it did.)

So, if you were to ask me, is it worth the additional cost to upgrade from the Ref. 3 to the Ref. 5?
I would say "No".
My reasoning is that I am broke, and the additional cost is beyond my reach. (The price of a used Ref. 3 is about $5K, and the price of a used Ref. 5 is about $7K, or about 40% more.) The Ref. 3 is a very fine preamp, and much better than its predecessors the Ref. 1 and Ref. 2, and it is within spitting distance of the Ref. 5. I would be very happy to have the Ref. 3 in my system. And, if I were not broke, I would gladly buy my friend's Ref. 3, if, and/or when, he sells it.

But if you ask my friend, he would say "Yes", it is worth it.
His reasoning is that it does indeed make a positive difference, and therefore, it is worth it. And given his system, I can easily see his logic, and would agree with it. Since his friend bought it used here on Audiogon, the cost to upgrade will probably be somewhere between $1,500-$2,000, which while a significant sum of money, does provide for a definite improvement, albeit a small one. And given his incredible system, improvements are inherently small, and truly expensive, so to normally get that much improvement, that sum of money is money well spent.

Anyway, those are my two cents worth, so take from it what you will.

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I have no interest in auditioning the Ref5. If I hear it and like it, I won't be able to sleep until I get one. So, I'll save myself the stress and sleep and stick with the Ref3. I'm still thrilled with and in love with the Ref3.
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