Audio Research Ref 5 preamp

Okay I would like to jump in here and provide my 2 cents.

I'm a happy owner of the Ref3 for many years now and reading replies here some I must say shocked me and suggest I gotta just get this new Ref5 because it's just that much better than my Ref3. I don't know so please don't start getting all defensive because I have not compared as of yet in my set-up but reading I decided to visit my dealer who is a long time ARC dealer on the intentions of actually buying one. This specific dealer is one of the oldest and I have known them for over 20 years now so one would think that they would know.

I was told today there are sonic differences but very slight, one might prefer one over the other depending your system but most defiantly not night and day. I took a peak inside and saw the design layout, how the heck can these guys justify charging more then the Ref3 list price when it's less work etc.

I will get one into my set-up some day to compare but now I'm not in such a hurry!

Hi guys, this dealer is one of the first original ARC dealers arround, along with ARC caries all kinds of other gear including Jeff Rowland, Boulder, DCS, Esoteric, JM Labs, Sonus Faber and the list goes on. They have all the toys to play with and to compare and as per my thread above that's what I was told. I have not compared in my own set-up as I have already mentioned but what I will say that I have found in this hobby is that some seem to have to justify their owning and it's a personality thing, for me it's not.

I'm sure the dealer would have liked a sale especially when I was prepared to buy but being a long time client told me what they did so all I can say is I'll find out down the road but as I mentioned in no hurry now.

Samuel,

I can see you are one of those types I mentioned by your response above, take it easy. I never attacked anyone's opinion and enjoyed reading your review but provided another version in which you seem to have a problem with and that tells me allot.

As I mentioned when I get arround to it I'll get one and have a listen within my own set-up but I'm in no hurry now. Just to let you know I had a listen with the Ref5 in a system that I have heard a few times prior and this time arround it didn't have my jaw dropping saying, wow! this pre has just changed everything I gotta have it. I referred to the dealer saying, is it just me but I don't notice much of a difference from when the Ref3 was hooked-up and that's when the comment came about.

I would rather wait and hear it within my own set-up to hear if there really is all that much of a difference as a couple of you point out to justify the cash upgrade difference but others are also allowed to provide info. right without being attacked.

Hi David_coppell, no that is not what I wrote so lets not get mislead, I clearly wrote;

"I would still want to hear one within my set-up to see if it justifies even that amount though."

While I was at the dealers my intentions being directed at listening to the Ref5 and purchasing but I did get to hear the new New Jeff Rowland Criterion pre, besides the stunning eye candy look it seemed to offer more sonic difference.

I also own the MBL 6010D pre. which is a really nice pre but I still prefer the Ref3 over all mainly due to the 3D images, stage presence, and just over all more realistic to me.

Samuel if you read my thread carefully you will read that I said I enjoyed reading your review and you do not see me arguing regarding your findings, these are your opinions which are okay. I have not demoed in my own system so I can't provide as of yet a comparison but will eventually and was sharing my initial findings which obviously by reading your threads did not like. You seem to be on some type of power trip along with sarcasm or something, for what ever reason you seem to have the need to say "I have six years of psych schooling and 15 years of field experience" doesn't impress me at all and then you say "See you at the med window ... :o)" Samuel now I know why we are always short of them, you are the guy always in line.

Guys I want you to know that no where did I suggest I did not like the Ref5 but just providing info. of my recent experience.

Lets put it this way I'm looking for a new pre right now, the Ref3 is going for how much even though I own one still but have to sell it or trade-in and the Ref5 being aprox. a 8K upgrade, is the difference worth it.

Hi Bvdiman, really like your set ups and enjoy reading your threads, only wish you were close enough to be able come and listen, no one around me has such and I'm sure sounds marvelous.

Regarding the Ref3 and Ref5, please if you or anyone can do so send me a personal message because I would be more than pleased to intertain such, I would still want to hear one within my set-up to see if it justifies even that amount though.

Samual I just want to let you know I think you have a marvelous system also and enjoy reading your thoughts but when others like my self provide info. you shouldn't take it so personally as I was not addressing you directly but for what ever the reason it went that way but hopefully finished and we can move on.

I was contacted by someone who saw this thread whom actually in the past bought amps from me and just happens this person bought a Ref5 which I'm told by him is well broken-in and was nice enough to lend to me so it has been in my system since late yesterday, thank you!

I have not had much time to listen as of yet (aprox 3 hours) but here are some of my initial thoughts so far.

I will say that there are differences, what I did notice after listening to a few pcs of music that I'm familiar with is I heard immediately lower floor noise, blacker back ground and we all know what that does, micro and micro-dynamics have improved which is nice, transients seem to be quicker also, midrange difference are more pronounced, with a bottom end I prefer which appears cleaner and lower allowing you hear and feel the actual bass notes specially on stand up bass it's allot better. I also noticed putting your hand over top of the unit which in my set-up is siting between shelves and appears not to throw off as much heat which really wasn't all that much with the Ref3 or an issue any ways but just a note of what I'm noticing. Most likely because of how the layout of tubes are now even though the actual tubes and number of tubes have not changed, just spaced out do to the board configuration being different but I'm sure this will assist in providing a longer life span.

These are my own opinions and in my own set-up.

I will have the pre for the weekend so I will no more, that being said back to listening and I'll report later of my over all findings.

Hi guys,

the comparison was very interesting and was done in a blind text method, the only difference being switching out pre-amps, this was done in my own set-up and I had five other individuals to assist over a four day time period and then we all met on the last day listened again.

We all agree that there are differences between them, after listing we discussed what we heard and did we feel they were substantial, jaw dropping, a nite and day difference, enough to justify the upgrade difference financially?

When we refer to this specific upgrade, we are referring to the out of pocket money currently, what a Ref3 is fetching now on the market along with buying a Ref5 for and doing the comparison as we did.

I believe it will just come down to a personal preference but non of us felt it was.

Looking at what a Ref3 is fetching now a days and then looking at the additional out of pocket money to move to a Ref5 the Ref3 is a real sweet deal, if the cost difference was closer say under $2K then that would assist making it a lot easier to justify, at least for me so if anyone can assist send me a personal message. I will say three out of the five who heard them in my set-up did not feel so and said they would be looking else where possibly the Ref Phono2 instead suggesting better to put your monies there. The other two preferred my MBL 6010D pre so go figure and that's what makes this hobby so interesting.

In the end we all got to have some laughs, share some stories, drink and eat, I got some more music pce names so it was all good.