Dev, I share your sentiments and thoughts, and also own a Ref3. I actually prefer the horizontal board layout of the ref5, and in some ways cannot understand why they ever used vertical boards, however with the cover on the preamp, I usually do not dwell on it!
At this level of quality and performance, improvements are going to be slight as you mention. I think they are charging more because they can. I will borrow one to try in my setup sometime, but I am not in a hurry either. |
Interesting. I never noticed any "electronic" artifacts in listening to the Ref3 (or any ARC tubed gear for that matter). I am not sure what you mean by "organic".
OTH, I might be interested in the bass and mid-base especially where I think there may be at times some unwarranted "warmth" in the Ref3. The ref 2 by comparison has what I would call some bloat in mid upper base. I never cared much for the Ref2 Mk1, the Ref was a major improvement. |
One can only wonder what shortcomings the Ref5 has that the Ref6 will ameliorate. |
Well, of course no one can argue with the merits of R&D. And obviously to stay in business manufacturers must manufacture. I am not clear on where the cost of great sound is going down in the high end audio business, however, considering the increased price of the Ref5.
Perhaps it is like the wine business and consumption in the U.S. in which there are now plenty of pretty darn good and improved wines to be had at reasonable prices, however the cost of Lafitte, Latour have gone to the stratosphere. |
Right. ARC is definitely top end and enjoys a healthy pre-owned market also. It seemed to me that the 2K price increase for the Ref5 was probably carefully considered. They would have to establish perception that the unit was indeed superior, but not overprice it. If they chose price same as Ref 3, it might tend to lessen the perception of the Ref3.
Then there are the new ARC owners who no doubt are looking at margins and profit for their investment. A casual look inside the Ref5 might indicate that manufacturing costs are less, i.e., one board instead of multiple, side mounting of other components. To further differentiate they change cosmetics. What is it really worth? Whatever we as listeners are willing to pony up, just like anything else? |
there 'ya go --- happy listening! |
So in other words, if Dev were able to a get good price he could be more disposed to pick one up? LOL.... |
Gentlemen, am I going to have to bring a REF5 home for a weekend to audition and settle this thing once and for all?
:) |
Hi Dev, I was responding to the near incomprehensible (at least to me) prose from Unoear.
I am in agreement that one would need to hear the unit in one's own set up to justify the expense, at any level.
Happy listening!
|
Hi Unoear, no problem, I see your point, thanks for the clarification. |
Well Dev, this is a most interesting development indeed. For many of us who have been listening and participating in this thread with the attendant emotional fluctuations, re-evaluated cost/enjoyment ratios and personal reflections on what it all means anyway, now are no doubt quietly and patiently waiting for the latest report. Well, I am anyway :) |
Micro, what was the change contributed by the ref5 before you moved to a new rack? I wonder if the rack then should be mated to the the REF5 to further improve it? |
Interesting question. I am happy with my REF210s however maybe there are silver handles on the horizon as one of the upgrades. A little beefier fan/cooling configuration would be a nice upgrade. Circuit boards are already horizontal, so no upgrade there... |
Personally, I was never that motivated to spend time rolling tubes. I did it once with a PH3SE and sure, the Mullard NOS tubes I used did seem to improve things, etc. etc. I spent time analyzing the differences and how to quantify and qualify them in words. To me, tube rolling is an ancillary swirl, as it were. I started wondering if I was actually getting unused NOS tubes, and if they were worth the premium $. It all seemed like time taken away from simply enjoying the music.
AR uses tubes they can easily get. I am inclined to conclude that that's good enough for me. All that said, however, if someone were to take the time to make the comparisons and had a strong recommendation, I would be inclined to listen up and maybe consider for the next tube replacement. I welcome others' points of view and perspective. |
