Audio Research Ref 5 and Krell amps

I received the ref phono 2 SE 3 weeks ago and my Ref 5 SE shows up on Tuesday. When I ordered both about 6 weeks ago...my dealer called me back and said the SE was available...but not officially announced. Seemed like a no brainer.

I also have Ayre KX-R...

The Ayre is paired with Sasha's and Ref 250s...the Phono 2 SE/SME 20/3 is one of the sources in that system along with Naim HDX/ARC DAC8. The Ref5 SE will replace Ref 2 in my cabin...paired with Ref150/Duettes...looking forward to putting in system. ARC has really hit it out of the park this year.

My understanding is upgrades will very likely be available...but no official word on price or availability

~13k as compared to ~12k for non-SE version

If the difference in Ref5 SE version is anything like what I am hearing from the Ref phono2 SE...it's the best 1k I've spent.

~13k as compared to ~12k for non-SE version

If the difference in Ref5 SE version is anything like what I am hearing from the Ref phono2 SE...it's the best 1k I've spent.

I have access to Ref 40 and just picked up Ref5SE...

When listening to 40 v 5(non SE). I would say the 5 got about 80-85% of the 40...but was weaker primarily in lower register definition and transparency...the 40 just has very little signature. I expect the SE will change this and get closer to 95-98% of 40 for half the cost.

Need my SE to break in but will report in a few months...I don't expect the SE to top 40 but it will be a hifi bargain

FWIW...I think Ref 150 is hifi amp bargain...I have both 150 and 250s...and while 250 is better primarily in low end articulation and at higher volumes...there is a range in which the 150 is almost there for a lot less...and that's a lot of extra $$$$ for music

Kenny

I would not ever use the word thin with ARC Ref series. I do agree that a lot of the improvement you hear is due to AE being so neutral that it gets out of the way and just presents the performance...no signature at all. The AE is a great preamp...one of the best. I still believe the changes to the Ref5 SE will take the 5 very close to that level. I will wait and listen to both and then provide my findings. Enjoy your AE....it's a special component.

Smoff

I am not familiar with your speakers or amps so tough to make a call. What I can say is that GNSC makes real improvements and will typically make improvements that ARC could not at it's product design price points. Sadly, Steve and ARC no longer play nicely together so upgrades no longer available. I have a ref 2 mk2 and VS115 both upgraded by GNSC and it is a great combo. I am replacing w/ref150 and 5SE. But the vs115 w/GNSC was good enough to not lose out to the Ref110. And I am not willing to sell these units

I expect the Older Ref amps (210/110) may sound better than your older classics...but if you are enjoying them now...I would not jump to 210...watch and wait for a 150.. If the 120s give you enough power now...that should be perfect amp...the Ref 3 can continue to be control...I imagine your system sounds great now...a little more classic ARC...which isn't bad...enjoy while you wait.

Cool...it's great to find a component that really works in your system

I will let the SE break-in some and then bring the AE over to compare. I won't be able to replicate your experience as I will use Ref 250 monos for the "cage match" and I think you use a 3 channel Evo. I use Transparent Ultra throughout... But speakers will be the same...Sasha right...wonderful speaker. I expect differences but not dramatic...much like the improvements the 250s provided over the 150...but will report what I hear.

Bottom line is you are happy regardless of whether 5SE is 95 or 99% of AE...all three of these preamps are great. And at this level we discuss relative changes...and the price people are willing to pay for those is highly dependent on individual preference...and there is no right answer...just some answers cost more than others. :)

Kenny,

Enjoy your system...I think our system structures are remarkably similiar. I have a hybrid system similiar to yours which does double duty as HT/2 channel system. I have an Ayre KX-R in between the Classe ST-SSP and the ARC Ref 250s...When the SSP turns on a HT source...the Ayre and 250s trigger on as well with Ayre in passthrough mode...Rest of HT is 2 JL212s, Wilson Center 3 and Surrounds 2 powered by DS450M(C3) and DS225(S2).The HT sounds wonderful using an Ayre DX5.

But when I want to listen to my Naim HDX server/DAC8 or LP12SE/Phono2SE...I just turn on the Ayre and 250s manually...and listen to a reasonably good 2 channel system. All three soucres flow balances through the Ayre

Easy for family to use and satisfies me for critical listening. I think you found a similiar solution with your setup.

here are some pics of how my setup turned out...also shows my study system based on Stax stats and Woo audio energizer...go to my gallery

http://gallery.me.com/npdomino/100048

4blue

I bought the Ref 150 in July at the same time as the Sashas and had them in the same system unitl November. The system is a hybrid 2Ch/HT system with Wilsons throughout. I love the 150 and at normal listening levels...I feel its very close to the 250s. The 250s are more defined and controlled in the lower registers...say Charles Mingus plucking the bass has more definition and speed...with just the right amount of reverb... and provide a slightly wider and more transparent soundstage at normal listening levels. Female vocals/violin/sax have a magic in this region on both amps that I have found SS amps just can't compete with. The 150s would play loud, the Sashas are faily efficient...but the 250's maintain composure at higher levels that the 150 can't compete with. At higher levels, the soundstage of the 150s start to compress and the bass articulation does start to muddy just a bit...this is all relative. I would take the 150s over almost any SS amp...and replaced a very good ML335 with them...but the 250s seem to be the best fit for this system. The 150 is moved to my cabin and will be mated with a Ref5SE and Wilson Duettes...I love this combo...it replaced a Ref2mk2 and VS 115...and is perfect for nearfield listening. I listen mainly to jazz and small scale classical.