Audio Research Preamp Experts?

I recently upgraded to a remote controlled AR REF 3 pre-amp from my SP-11. I was allowed to take home an SP16, 17 model, and I also compared the retubed SP-11 with all of them and other AR LS models along with Boulder's top-of-the line, Krell's and others.

The SP-11 retubed is very close and a wonderful pre-amp. Better than most in AR's line with the exception of the LS model directly below the REF 3 (can't remember the number), REF 3 and above.

So, for the money, the SP-11 and SP-15 would be the way to go. If you have a little extra, the LS model directly below the REF 3 or the REF 3 are better. But, money is always a factor.

system integration is an important factor. However, compare apples to apples and remember, companies make their products and money based on price points. Therefore, "typically" similarly priced components should be compared and swap one component only and listen. don't change cables, tubes, etc. If you are evaluating a pre-amp. Listen to your favorite, most revealing music through your existing system, then swap the pre-amp (Only) and listen to the same music again.

However, if cost is a factor, and a REF 3 or above isn't in the cards, you can't beat an SP-11 or SP-15 for the money and you get a decent phono stage to boot.

enjoy.

Well my direct comparison between the REF 3, SP-11 retubed and SP 16 and other AR preamps were very revealing. I did not play with tube rolling or change cables, etc. I simply listened to music with one unit, unplugged it and connected the other and listened to the same music. The SP-11 (retubed mind you, with AR supplied tubes) was wayyyyy better than the the SP-16. It was not even close. I would even classify the Sp-16 as being a lower high-end or upper mid fi pre-amp. I'm not kidding. It wasn't close. However, the SP-11 was close to the REF 3 to the point where I seriously questioned buying the REF 3. The REF 3 was better, don't get me wrong, but the price difference, wellll, was it worth doing it. In my opinion, it was! I find myself no wanting to stop listening. However, I sold my SP-11 for around $2,300 and that was a fair price. So, whom ever is listing an SP-11 for $5,000 or even over $3,000 is asking way too much.

I have not heard a direct comparison between the SP-11 and the SP-15, but people who's opinion I respect tell me the SP-15 is on the same level as the SP-11 MK II.

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Wow. Great question. My system consist of, Sota Star Saphire TT, with SME IV arm and Blackbird cartridge into an AR PH-3 phone stage, AR REF 3 pre-amp, McIntosh Labs MS 300 music server into a Theta DSPro Gen II DAC, Pereaux TU-1 Tuner, Pioneer Elite DV-09 DVD/CD player into a Theta DSP Gen V DAC, Martin Logan Monolith IIIX electronic crossover, into a Mark Levinson ML-3 amp for the bass drivers of my ML Monolith IIIX speakers and either 1) Audio Research VTM 120 Mono Amps or my Mark Levinson 23.5 Amp driving the upper panels of the Martin Logan Monolith IIIX speakers. Cables are MIT, XLO, Transparent, Canare, etc. Also, for the naysayers, the Pioneer Elite DV-09 is in my opinion one of the best transports I have ever heard and I have heard some really good ones. It is built like a tank, really, seriously overbuilt, vacumed sealed and compared to the seven (really!)cd player/transports that I have listened to into the DAC, it blew each and every one of them away.

Now to the sound of the SP-16 compared to the SP-11. The SP-16 was constrained, not open, soundstage was small, bass was not good. Sorry, but my audiophile vocabulary is lacking. When I played, Eva Cassidy or Marilyn Scott, or Pat Metheny, etc. on the SP-11 and then played the same on the SP-16, it was the biggest difference I have ever heard in comparisons. Also, my when I was speaking with my Dealer about possibly getting a remote controlled pre-amp to replace my SP-11 (possibly) he told me that the SP-16 would be close. He later admitted that he forgot that the SP-11 was the top-of-the line AR pre-amp of the time and that the Sp-16 was basically AR's entry level pre-amp. Fortunatly, his store routinely allows me to take equipment home for a week at a time and audition before I buy. I kept coming back to the REF 3. It was really smooth.

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It depends on your amps and your pre-amp actually. I have found that some equipment is very forgiving as opposed to others. The SP-11 in my opinion was very forgiving of bad recordings. (I didn't know they were bad until I got the REF 3). Now several of my recordings are absolutely terrible sounding because the REF 3 revealed just how bad the recording process was. I would never have thought that were true. When you get a chance and you leave your wallet at home. Take a week long listen to a REF 3. you will really enjoy the experience.

enjoy.

I know what you mean. It sucks when some of your favorite recordings all of a sudden don't sound good. However, the other side, is the really good stuff sounds so much better.

And I also agree that being in the amp of the month club, constantly upgrading is not fun for me. I hope you really enjoy your SP-16.

enjoy.

hey Closdesducs; Wonderful that you are enjoying the SP-11. Some new music for you if you haven't already obtained it. Eva Cassidy, at the blues alley (wonderful), songbird also. enjoy the SP-11. Keep in touch.

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Mapman; In my opinion based on my direct comparisons, some equipment is much more forgiving than others. However, remember, that there really are some terrible recordings out there. A lot of recording engineers really don't care about sound stage, etc. They use compression, multiple tracks, terrible mikes, bad mike placement, bad cables, etc. Its funny. my friend brought some of her favorite music over and we played it through the SP-11 and it sounded good. We later played it through the REF 3 (that was the only change), and it was really bad. But the well recorded music that we owned sounded great on both. I have changed equipment and have heard other equipment being revealed as not so good also. A well designed and constructed piece of equipment will not color or distort. It is only if one already knows what the music sounds like or does an A/B comparison with a particular piece of equipment, that you can really tell.

I have to admit, that many of my older cd's really suck as far as recording quality goes. Same for some of my albums.

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Well, I heard said that the LS26 is one step below the REF3 if that helps. Take a listen for a week or so at your house to tell for sure.

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