I have had my 2.1 upgraded from 2.0 for two weeks now and I do find it does many things better then the original version. I have outlined these things in my posts.
The unit is to my ears quite different sounding from the 2.0. I do miss some of the warmth of the 2.0. My unit must have 80 hours or so on it now. It would be very nice to have both versions at once to A/B. My speakers tend to be on the warm side as well as my front end. The AH cable is on the warm side also. If my dac/transport , wire and speakers were more on the "bright" side of things I could see where my system may be tilted to the bright or in-your-face side of things.
With the balance of my current system the upgraded 2.1 works well. I know the unit is still changing as I am playing a couple of disc's over and over as the unit breaks in.
I will post more on the chages after 100 hours like Sherod.
Bill |
Sherod, yes it is. Really want to hear what Victor has to say. I assume they know the "end" result after complete burn-in. I assume they know if the sound becomes more tube like and as you say has "breath of life"
Bill |
While I am getting more tube warmth the new version does lack in the one area Sherod keeps bringing up - "breath of life". I like that phase.
Tvad calls it 3D or musical. Thus far, after near 100 hours of burn in, my unit excels in many pure audiophile terms like powerful bass, transparancy, inner detail, imaging, stage size, instrument space and position, clarity at all volumes, purity etc...
It is so much better in these areas that it blew me away. This is all good. Over time I have to agree with Sherod, the newer version is weaker in "breath of life". Combined, all these differences make for a very different sounding preamp.
Perhaps burn in will ultimately bring this attribute to the music.
Bill |
I use balanced in and outs on my 2.1 upgraded preamp. I understand in my version Joseph puts some more money into the XLR jacks. I think he builds in some sort of balanced transformer in each channel. I have to check on that. I also noticed a nice improvement using the XLR's as I also own AH RCA IC's.
That wire harness is long from the front of the unit to the back. The new chasis 2.1 has a much shorter cable as the volume knob is connected to a rod which reaches far back into the unit.
I may try my NOS Mullards tonight!
Bill |
I do not find my upgraded version softer or recessed. My experience is just the opposite. Voices are more forward and symbals have more impact and decay. The 2.0 is softer sounding in my system to be sure.
The sound is not as round and warm as the original version yet. Like a little more BODY to the voices and hope burn in will do that.
Very interesting set of experiences between all of us thus far.
Bill |
I will look up the specs for my SS amp tonight. I am also getting a nice triode tube amp Friday and will play with that!
I also think the output or gain of the AH is an issue to look into. The version one owns and the use of XLR or RCA
connections perhaps changes the output or gain. Not sure if impedence changes.
Here are the specs from the AH site.
TP 2.1 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Frequency Response: 10 Hz to 50kHz +1/-2 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): 0.05% @ 1 kHz, -20 dBv, A-weighted
Dynamic Range: Better than 90 dB
Signal to Noise Ratio: Better than 105 dB
Channel Separation: 90 dB @ 1 kHz
70 dB @ 10 kHz
Gain 20 dB or 10dB with B upgrade
Output Impedance: Less than 600 ohms
AC Voltage: 120 Volts
AC Frequency: 50/60 Hz.
I have the upgraded B(balanced?) and N version and use the XLR connectors. The gain is 1/2 or only 10 db instead of 20 db for RCA. I am not a tech guy and perhaps this means nothing but having to turn the knob higher to achieve the same volume.
My B version XLR connections sound better in my system vs the RCA. It is easy for me to compare both as I own both AH RCA and XLR cables.
My AH DAC has two settings for output a low and high gain. I use the lower setting. Not sure if this has any impact?
Love to hear from Victor on this latest subject.
Bill |
Thanks Rx8man,
Anyone elso have some nice tube amps you can recommend to pair with the AH pre and speakers that are 90db efficient at 4 ohms.
Bill |
The wife and kids are gone tonight all day Friday. I have the day off also!! I am listening to music late into the night and loving it. No doubt the 2.1 is coming into its own in my play room. It has been on with loud music all day and night thus far. Best sound I have had in my room.
My Belles Reference 350 specs are as follows. This is for Tvad to help me understand how these numbers mate with the AH preamp.
"Input sensitivity 1.98 for rated power"
"Input impedance 50,000 ohms"
Tvad, I think speaker wire also impacts impedance?
Sherod, I am staying tuned as I feel kinda bad as I think you decided on the upgrade based on my comments. I sure hope in works out to your complete liking.
Bill |
Sherod, Wow your a man of action! Seems you got down to the bottom line on the upgrade and burn -in. Not so much the wire harness or power supply, rather its the output caps and bypasses that are troubling you.
That is great to know Sherod, but one important question still remains for this audionut. Would the caps you've removed ever have settled in and actually sounded better than the ones you put back in? Vic and Joe sure think they did?
Just reading this thread we know other caps took upwards of 350 hours and changed quite a lot over that time.
I am curious what your thoughts are on this.
One other question, I hope someone can help me with this. Tube positions 1 and 3 are where? Looking at the front of the unit and starting from the right hand side?
Stayed up to 3:00 AM listening. Music always sounds better after midnight and what's with that folks!
Thanks,
Bill |
I don't prefer XLR over RCA in general. It always depends on how the unit at hand is made. Many times I can't tell the difference on many pieces of gear. In this case Joseph made the XLR (b) version better sounding to my ears. He designd it this way and that is why the B version costs more.
Stlrains, be sure to give the wire at least 70 hours of burn in before coming to a conclusion. I think you will like his XLR wire with your preamp.
Funny that Victor said one may have to move the speakers with the upgraded unit. I did and found a nice sweet spot different from the previous speaker location.
I moved the speakers 7 inches further apart and for the first time toed them in about 5 degrees. They were previousely pointed straight ahead.
I have found Victor's comments to be spot - on. The upgraded unit offers a whole new realm of music. I hear so much more in the music. Much more life and energy. Turn it up and complex passages with dramatic volume swings just soar out of my Dali speakers.
I look forward to the amp they build and will be one of the first ones in line.
My next audio expenditure will be to upgrade my DAC however.
Bill |
Sherod, I am glad you are happy with the preamp again and appeciate your passion for good sound and music. Enjoy tonight.
Bill |
I am thinking of trying a tube amp again and am considering a high powered PP or SET. Wonder how long this amp will take to bring to market? Like my Belles SS amp to be sure, but a recent Agon purchase has given me the tube bug again. I purchased a EL84 triode amp, 7 watts, made by Vu of Deja Vu audio. It is made with vintage transformers and high quality parts. It is a replica of a nice vintage tube amp from the 50's.
Wow, does this amp sound wonderful. Yes, I need more power when I want to play my music very loud, but this amp drives my Dali's pretty darn well.
Considering an ASL AQ1009 and several Vac amps. Perhaps even an ASL Hurricane.
Bill |
I use the AH 3.0 dac and love it. It bested many good digital front ends of have owned. Very musical and meaty.
I found the upgraded 2.1 much better all around in my system.
Bill |
Tvad, what happened to the Supratek?
Bill |
Tvad, why did you sell it? Just looking for better?
Bill |
Sure been quiet on the thread. I purchased some VAC Musicbloc amps recently and have been listening to them for a couple of weeks. I have learned something just recently that I want to pass on. I had these amps plugged into by BPT 2.5 Ultra as I have done with all of my amps in the past. I have always found the BPT helped the sound and never took away. Well, I assumed the same for these tube monoblocks, but I was wrong. Very wrong.
I liked the sound just fine, but I was finding the bass a little thick and slow. So after a week or so I decided to plug the amps right into my 20 amp outlets and much to my surprise the music flowed so much better. It was as if the amps were held back before. Goodness what a huge improvement from top to bottom.
Those of you with tube amps and any kind of power conditioner/balanced transformer may want to try the same thing. Plug your tube amps right into the wall and check out the difference. You may find a different result, but for me it was a HUGE improvement.
These VACs are very fine amps indeed. Sherod has the same amps I think and I now have even more respect for VAC. I may add that Kevin at VAC is a great guy and very helpful.
Well, while I had these amps one of my long time dream amps came up on the Gon and I had to have them. I will report on them once they come. They cost 2X as much as the VACs and I hope they are everything I anticipate.
I have been enjoying the pairing of tube amps with my TP 2.1. The VACs are more musical then my previous SS Belles Ref 350 amp. I loved the Belles amp, but it seems I was ready for a change.
My VAC amps are going to a new home soon and I am waiting on my new 70 pound monoblock 300b amps!! It will be interesting to see how well they mate with the AH preamp and my Dali speakers.
Ok, tube amp owners, have you found conditioners degrade the sound of your tube amps? This is the first time I have run into it with my BPT?
Bill |
La45, Sorry to hear about that. Get an ART SLA 1 amp on Ebay for $170 as a backup. It is very nice sounding and you will be very pleased. No kidding.
I am loving my Canary 300b amps with the AH preamp! The upgrade is now fully burned in and my music sounds wonderful.
Bill |
I only sold the VAC amps to pay for much more expensive amps that became available. Power was not an issue as the VAC drives my 90 db speakers with absolute ease.
I have been listening today and love these VAC amps. I wish I could have waited to compare the VAC amps to my new amps but I needed the cash badly.
Once I get the new amps in and settled I will update all. I found the VAC amps and the AH preamp to be a good match. VAC amps seem not to suffer from that traditional "old school, tube slowness or thickness". With the BPT out the highs go higher and the bass is fast and tight.
Bill |
I have my new Canary amps up and working. I have the CA309 with updated Hovland caps. Really very close to the CA339.
50 watts per side out of these 70 pound tube monoblocks. They are PP 300B amps. 4 - 300B's per amp. At this point I am amazed, so amazed at the sound that I am not sure what to say or how to say it.
Boy they mate perfectly with the AH 2.1 preamp. I have owned and heard many great amps in my home, but thus far these fit my tastes perfectly. I guess I will have to deal with 16 tubes as these amps are pure magic in my system.
La45,I have owned some nice SET amps from Wavac and George Wright. These 300b PP amps have all the SET magic with absolute power and authority like I have yet to hear in any other tube amp. You are correct in saying the AH 2.1 preamp is wonderful with these types of amps.
I purchased some wonderful NOS input and rectifier tubes for these Canarys and Wow!!!!! I though for sure my Belles Ref 350 and the AH preamp was the best I could do. It was very good and I enjoyed many hours of great music. Over the past 2 months I have been blessed to play with 3 great tube amps and I don't miss SS power at all!!
These amps also sound best plugged right into the wall with no conditioner.
Bill |
Ralphcast is right on about AH cables. I use AH transparency cables throughout my system and they sound wonderful. They beat cables costing many times the price of the AH cables.
I also love the upgraded AH preamp and find more refined as Ralphcast said.
Bill |
Welcome Frankk,
My unit has two sets of outputs. I would confirm with Victor or Joseph. Tubes do have a major impact on the unit's sound. The Siemans tubes sourced by Joseph are the best I have heard in the unit. Not sure if you paid the extra cash for these NOS tubes? They are well worth it as an FYI.
Bill |
Mitch, I am trying the Dimension IC cable in my system again. I currently own his Transparency cable and use it throughout my system - power, IC's and speaker cable. I tried the Dimension before and prefered the Transparancy in my system at that time. I have a new room and amps so I want to compare them again.
I found the Dimension a little darker sounding in my old system. The Transparency cable sounded more like it's name.
It could be the Dimension cable was not fully broken it. We will see.
Still looking forward to the coming AH tube amp!!!!
Bill |
Hi Ckoffend
Yes, I think Joseph can build your pre with an HT pass through. I would email him to confirm. The 2.1 is very smooth in the treble and would be a great match with a nice SS amp like your Krell. Stage is wide and deep. One of the preamps strenghts is its balanced from top to bottom.
I think this pre would add a nice element of body and texture to your amp and speakers. It has done so with my systems. I did use the 2.1 with a Belles SS amp and found the combo very nice indeed.
Just try one! Nothing to lose as you can return it if you choose.
Based on what you need and the rest of your system I would go for the top of the line in terms of add-ons. Get the best with the Siemens tubes if you can afford it. I have this unit with remote.
Good luck.
Bill |
I had this same transformer hum - mechanical - coming from the unit itself and not through the speakers. Some transformer/power supplies do and some don't. May want to check to make sure it is tight as a loose bolt or two will cause a mechanical hum. Other then that, replace with a quiet transformer/power supply.
Bill |
I would love to hear his new amp, but am sad to hear it is a SET amp and won't work for many full range systems. I was hoping Joseph would make an amp that could work in a broader range of systems.
I own Silverline Bolero speakers that are 92db effecient and 8 ohms. While a SET amp could run them to decent volumes, it can't run them to the very loud levels I sometimes like.
Others will get to enjoy his new amp, but it seems Joseph choose a smaller target audience with the decision to go the SET route. |
Clefhanger
I have compared the Rowland to the AH 2.1 fully loaded in my system some 18 months ago. I found the AH to be more musical, richer mids, more body and more to my taste.
One preamp that has bested both by a good margin is my current TRL Dude. You should also put the Dude on your list - $3500 new. Amazing unit to be sure. |
I would also like to know. The Dude bested the 2.1 loaded by a good margin - pretty wide margin really. I understand Joseph is up to some interesting things and perhaps a shootout is in order soon.
Would be fun! |
Mike, check out my review of the Dude on this site for particulars. More open, resolving, musical, dynamic, effortless, much "larger" sounding, instruments simply sounded like they do live to a far greater degree.
I do respect Joseph and still stay in touch having just purchased more cables from him. Perhaps I will get a chance to hear his best unit soon. I live in southern Minnesota about 90 miles south of the Twin Cities. |
Nice post on the amp. Well written and really paints a vivid picture of what you are experiencing with this amp. |
Charlie, glad to hear that without any burn in you love the upgraded DAC. That is a great DAC and I am sure it is now something very special.
I have an idea for you if your amps are on the floor. Place them on Sistrum SP 004 stands and then place about 2 pounds of clean sand in a nice zip lock bag and place on top of your amp. The Sistrum stands the 003's or 004's can be had for about $150 each used.
Now listen to your system. Wait until you have some 200 hours on the DAC before doing this amp tweek. You will be very pleased! |
Robertwofee,
I did replace my AH with the TRL Dude, but my AH preamp did not have the latest upgrades available from AH. I think his latest with all available upgrades would cost well over $4500. The Dude cost $3500.
I would like to compare the two someday and may.
Charlie, no I don't drink at all and I know it sounds a little strange, but the tweek with sand bags really helps some amps - not all amps :-)
The Sistrum stands are the real deal on all gear and speakers I have ever tried them under. |
Sherod, try those JB JFX caps in your pre and you will smile. Glad you are doing better. |
