After doing more reading on various Internet forums, it seems that HDMI pass through of 5.1 bitsteam audio to optical (or sometimes coax) output by TVs is a hit or miss proposition - some do it and some do not, even for current models. And those that do it sometimes only do Dolby Digital and not DTS. Those that do pass DTS also sometimes have a very long delay in the audio. In addition, some that do pass through 5.1 only do so if you only do pass through. If your try to have the TV decode the signal and play the sound, some will not also pass through the 5.1 signal. That means you will need to change the TV speaker setting if you want to use the TV speaker for sound. Also, some TVs only allow pass through on one of the HDMI inputs.
I have read that the HDMI HDCP standard does not strictly allow such pass through from HDMI inputs but some manufactures do it anyway. None HDMI signals (Netflix for example) are not restricted, but signals received through HDMI are. Some manufactures seem to simply ignore the EDID settings and pass it through anyway. It some cases people go into the service menus and set an option to allow pass through. I guess that gets the manufacturer from getting in trouble with the HDCP rules. I do not know all the details but I found this discussed several places.
Some of the reported problems with TV not doing 5.1 pass through may be user error. But enough have problems even with new models to make me believe this can be a problem depending on manufacturer and even model.
From what I read, you need to be careful if you want to do 5.1 pass through of an HDMI signal through a TV. It is not uniformed implemented, even on new models. If it works fine, otherwise you can go directly from the source to your receiver with the bitstream. |
You are correct that coax does not carry 5.1 PCM. It has been a while since I dealt with this. When needed I just bitstream 5.1 over optical or coax, which is what Pentagle should do.
I would still prefer to go directly to the receiver rather than the TV. However, if the TV is a new "Smart" TV with access to Netflix and the like, then going optical from the TV to the receiver also allows you to use 5.1 from the streaming services. Then I would agree that doing everything on one digital input to the receiver is the way to go.
If you go BR to TV only, do you have to have the TV on to play a CD? Not sure how the pass through of 5.1 works on most TVs these days. Does it need power? |
My mistake, he needs a TV that can ACCEPT the bitstream, not necessarily decode it. I ran into a situation just this week where the TV would not accept a 5.1 signal. Yes, it is an old HDMI TV, but they are out there. Hence the caution. I agree that most new TVs do this. |
Pentangle, let me clear up one last bit of misinformation. If he bit streams to the TV then he needs a TV that can decode the bit stream and send it to a digital out. Not exactly true. Retired now, but worked in the A/V industry for over 20 years, and Sony was a brand I dealt with. The first year or two when HDMI was added to TV's would be a problem, however if your set is less than 8 years old, then the Dolby Digital bitstream signal is just a pass through from the HDMI input to the digital audio output. So again, this is my recommendation, If he connects the Blu-ray player and cable box to the TV with HDMI, and they are set for bitstream, he will get a bitstream signal from the digital audio output on the TV, and this can be connected to a digital input on the RX-V1400. Also, changing inputs on the TV will change sound from the RX-V1400 at the same time, rather than having to make an additional change on the RX-V1400 to select the appropriate sound for the picture. |
Dtc, in your first post, you said to use the optical or coaxial digital audio out. The link I provided for the Sony verified that this is only a 2ch PCM signal or bitstream. Question - the Sony spec for coax/Toslink is 2 channel for 96/24. Are you sure it does not do multichannel for 48/24, which is what Dolby Digital uses? I will say I do not use this type of very entry level BR. Here is another link for the Oppo BDP-105, check the specification for "Output - Coaxial/Optical Audio - up to 2ch/192kHz PCM" http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-105/blu-ray-BDP-105-Features.aspxFor HDMI output, it does list 7.1ch PCM. I believe multichannel PCM is only possible through HDMI, not an optical or coaxial digital out. Can you provide any documentation that shows any player that will do a multichannel PCM out through an optical or coaxial digital output? As far as the 48/24, Dolby Digital, that's a bitstream signal. Also, any 2ch PCM signal from an optical or coaxial digital output will be down mixed. |
RBaker - If using the BR player for 3D movies, or any movies, it sounds like an upgrade to the receiver and speakers may be warranted. 3D video with 2 channel audio is a bit of a mismatch.
If the receiver does not have a coax digital input, then you need some sort of external DAC, as tls49 suggested. Just make sure the BR down mixes any multi-channel signal to 2 channel. |
Tis49 - I have not run into BR that can only do 2 channel digital out. If that is the case for the Sony then he can bit stream the lossy signal. If he bit streams to the TV then he needs a TV that can decode the bit stream and send it to a digital out. Not all HDMI TVs do that. But again, he would have to bit stream a lossy format. I prefer not to send the digital signal to the TV, but I also have a universal remote with macros, so switching inputs is not an issue.
Question - the Sony spec for coax/Toslink is 2 channel for 96/24. Are you sure it does not do multichannel for 48/24, which is what Dolby Digital uses? I will say I do not use this type of very entry level BR. |
Tls49, it is a Sony BDP S5100-- thanks for the idea for the DAC and the link,will check it out. |
Rbaker, I have some ideas but need more info. Is the player a Sony BDP-S5200? Receiver has no digital inputs, coaxial or optical? TV - brand, model, age, or anything you can provide? Initial thought for a very cheap solution, assuming receiver has no digital inputs, HDMI from player to the TV, player menu set to PCM as you said, then use player's digital output to this DAC, http://www.parts-express.com/fiio-d03k-coaxial-optical-dac-digital-analog-converter--230-120then the DAC's L&R analog out to the receiver. Obviously, a better DAC would improve the sound, however this one is probably as good as the one in the older DVD player, if it was a lesser priced model. |
Dtc, the reason I asked for model numbers of his equipment is that I know some Sony Blu-ray players, and maybe all, only output LPCM 2ch or bitstream from the digital audio output. If he has a multichannel speaker system, I believe it will be better to use the bitstream. Look here at "Audio Features Coaxial, Optical" under Product Specifications. http://store.sony.com/blu-ray-disc-player-zid27-BDPS1100/cat-27-catid-All-Blu-ray-DVD-Players?_t=pfm%3DcategoryIf he connects the Blu-ray player and cable box to the TV with HDMI, and they are set for bitstream, he will get a bitstream signal from the digital audio output on the TV, and this can be connected to a digital input on the RX-V1400. Also, changing inputs on the TV will change sound from the RX-V1400 at the same time, rather than having to make an additional change on the RX-V1400 to select the appropriate sound for the picture. |
Dtc,I am running into the same problem trying to hook up a new sony 3d player for my sister.She wants to be able to listen to audio cd's ,there is only a single coax digital input to the DVD player or an optical,her receiver does not have an optical option.Her ancient receiver has a right and left input that use to handle the old DVD/CD.I went into the sony menu and it is set to auto for everything and I could not find the LPCM it had only the PCM option.Any ideas,none of this may work out but any ideas would be appreciated.thanks. |
You can just connect the optical or coax digital audio connection on your Blu Ray to the 1400 and leave it at that. There is no reason to connect the audio to the TV. Set the Blu Ray to decode the new lossless codecs to LPCM, since the 1400 does not decode the new codecs.
Your cable box audio should also connect directly the the 1400 with a digital audio connection if you want the TV sound to play through your home theater setup. If you want to also be able to use the TV with its own speakers, e.g. for watching news, you should get that from just the HDMI cable from the cable box to the TV.
Personally, I just use my receiver (also an old 1400) for all the sound. |
It would be helpful to list the model numbers of the BRP and HDTV.
Initial thought is that with HDMI directly to the TV from the BRP, TV speakers should work unless TV speakers are turned off in the TV's menu. The TV should have a digital audio out, so this could be connected to a digital input on the RX-V1400.
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