Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-s


Isn't it funny how timing works. With all the different discussions on proving this, show me fact on that and the psycho acoustical potential of the other thing an article comes along with the same topics and some REAL potential answers. I received my newest copy of "The Audiophile Voice" Vol.7, Issue1 today and on page 16 is an article written by David Blair and Bill Eisen titled "In The Matter Of Noise". The article focuses on disturbance noise but has some reference to thermal noise, low frequency noise and shot noise, and our ability to measure these noises with the equipment of today. We have measured noise as low as 6x10 to the power of -5, or approximately a few cycles per day. We have also found through laboratory testing that the human brain is stimulated with frequencies from just above 0Hz to just below 50kHz. U.S. Department of Defense documents also show studies of low frequency activity below measurable levels and there various affects.
The article then begins to talk about out of band (hearing) noise and in band noise produced by our electronic equipment and the potential of these noises effecting our sound system. The assumptions are that "disturbance noises rob our systems of dynamics, low-level information, tonal purity and stage depth". These effects are for the most part overlooked and misunderstood by the scientific communities. They say they think that our speakers being hit with "massive quantities of R.F.I. are affected" A very good quote referring to power filters was "Effective noise control imposes no sonic tradeoffs or downside." How often have the discussions here on Audiogon focused on what they are doing? A very interesting comment was that Teflon is capable of carrying 40-Kilovolts static charge, and the industry is touting this as a great insulator for audio signals, that's scarey!
Now I bring this to light because I believe the view of the "Scientists and Engineers" here on Audiogon is so narrow that they are failing to see the exciting challenges in front of them. If all these noises do exist, which they do, and they can be transmitted and received through our systems, isn't possible, just maybe feasible that the insulation of our wires, the casing of our dedicated lines the size and shape of the conductor could, just maybe effect the sound? Isn't it even possible that forces set off by electrical components could be interfering in some so far unmeasured and inaudible way affecting the sound. Do you all test within the full spectrum of 0Hz to 50Khz for every possible situation? Or is it possible, just ever so small of a chance that you are overlooking a whole new science yet unexplored. Doesn't that, even slightly excite your little scientific fossils?
Man if I was younger, healthier and wanted a challenge. This is a career if you'd just climb out from behind you oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzer and see the world is indeed still spinning, and yes, it is 2001. Remember how 30 years ago 2001 was going to be so exciting. What the hell have the Scientist, Engineers and Na-sayers who tote there stuff here on Audiogon done for the advancement of science. Anyone, have any of you really broken through! J.D.
128x128jadem6
JD: "The claim of audible difference is not just psychological, and science has a way to prove it." This is what's known as assuming your conclusion. The claim of audible difference may indeed be "just psychological." Your requirement that Steve accept that you hear "a tangible, physical, measurable difference" makes no sense, since you haven't even demonstrated that there's a measurable difference here, let alone an audible one.
That's wrong Jostler. I have now had over ten people come and listen to my system, I've then taken out the cords and conditioner and put in the stock cords ( you can read elsewhere my process that's been said to be overkill). I have had amazement, shock, confusion, smiles, but as of yet not one person who didn't hear a major loss with the stock cords. Now if you chose to ignore my factual proof for your unproven doubt, fine, your entitled to your opinion but please don't participate in this discussion for you add no new value.
Jade - I would be willing to bet you any amount of money (well, say up to $10,000) that you would be unable to hear the difference in line cords in a true double blind experiment. The reason this psychology business is treacherous is that people REALLY do believe they hear a difference. And it isn't that there is something wrong with anyone, its just the way the mind works.

So, try a test where neither you nor the person scoring the test knows which cord is installed. Make sure there is no possible clue as to which cord is connected. See how you do.
Fpeel - What are some of things that believers think sound better, yet they attribute to psychology?
If you read my post in "blind tests" you would know I've done quite a bit of testing. I'm sure my procedures will not meet your criteria in that you insist on your point. With that said, I'm done with you and Jostler for the time being. If anyone else wants to have a constructive discussion and continue this line of thought please do and I would love to join in. I do however refuse to discuss this with you two any more. You have already cause enough damage on these three threads and through it all you have yet to bring anything constructive to the table. J.D.