Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-s


Isn't it funny how timing works. With all the different discussions on proving this, show me fact on that and the psycho acoustical potential of the other thing an article comes along with the same topics and some REAL potential answers. I received my newest copy of "The Audiophile Voice" Vol.7, Issue1 today and on page 16 is an article written by David Blair and Bill Eisen titled "In The Matter Of Noise". The article focuses on disturbance noise but has some reference to thermal noise, low frequency noise and shot noise, and our ability to measure these noises with the equipment of today. We have measured noise as low as 6x10 to the power of -5, or approximately a few cycles per day. We have also found through laboratory testing that the human brain is stimulated with frequencies from just above 0Hz to just below 50kHz. U.S. Department of Defense documents also show studies of low frequency activity below measurable levels and there various affects.
The article then begins to talk about out of band (hearing) noise and in band noise produced by our electronic equipment and the potential of these noises effecting our sound system. The assumptions are that "disturbance noises rob our systems of dynamics, low-level information, tonal purity and stage depth". These effects are for the most part overlooked and misunderstood by the scientific communities. They say they think that our speakers being hit with "massive quantities of R.F.I. are affected" A very good quote referring to power filters was "Effective noise control imposes no sonic tradeoffs or downside." How often have the discussions here on Audiogon focused on what they are doing? A very interesting comment was that Teflon is capable of carrying 40-Kilovolts static charge, and the industry is touting this as a great insulator for audio signals, that's scarey!
Now I bring this to light because I believe the view of the "Scientists and Engineers" here on Audiogon is so narrow that they are failing to see the exciting challenges in front of them. If all these noises do exist, which they do, and they can be transmitted and received through our systems, isn't possible, just maybe feasible that the insulation of our wires, the casing of our dedicated lines the size and shape of the conductor could, just maybe effect the sound? Isn't it even possible that forces set off by electrical components could be interfering in some so far unmeasured and inaudible way affecting the sound. Do you all test within the full spectrum of 0Hz to 50Khz for every possible situation? Or is it possible, just ever so small of a chance that you are overlooking a whole new science yet unexplored. Doesn't that, even slightly excite your little scientific fossils?
Man if I was younger, healthier and wanted a challenge. This is a career if you'd just climb out from behind you oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzer and see the world is indeed still spinning, and yes, it is 2001. Remember how 30 years ago 2001 was going to be so exciting. What the hell have the Scientist, Engineers and Na-sayers who tote there stuff here on Audiogon done for the advancement of science. Anyone, have any of you really broken through! J.D.
jadem6

Showing 5 responses by philiphansg0cc4

702, you're right. AWG9 is twice the size of your present ones. Try it out, A-B or otherwise and post if there's a difference in sound. Regards.
Hi 70242, exotic cable designers do have some thingies which they cannot publish for science sake. They have to survive to fight another cord/conditioner battle in the commercial reality.
i'm technically trained for my profession in electronics & electrics and an AES member. For the love of reproduced music i'm also a severe case of "audiophilisis", a Believer. My tech knowledge is sufficient for my day job, but i'm not always able to understand completely why there are sonic differences i could hear between designer & stock cords. I choose to pursue my hobby to the fullest, enjoying the music with just that little bit more clarity and realism which i could achieve with good designer interconnects, conditioners and powercords. I'll try to figure out why or read up maybe some day, but waste no time now, enjoy the music!
They are expensive because most of them are handmade & are of very good materials. I bought them used, so could change them about without losing too much money. But beware, not all "designer" gear are crap-free. Having a group of audiophile friends helps, some even allow me hometrial. I think all true audiophiles would agree with me, that we need not understand the technicalities to enjoy our hobby, and this is what Audiogon is all about isn't it. There is nothing wrong with stock cords; they are good value for the average hifi enthusiast i must insist.
Here is something more technical. A well known audiocable maker uses "lossy" PVC, average loss PE & low loss teflon materials for their cable insulation to make products, some of them even have all three types in combinations and geometries. What is significant is that this maker is able to match each buyer's budget from good to excellent sonics consistently. It also said that PVC is underated becuse of its "lossiness" but good sonically. And that teflon is overated because it "glares" sonically and need to counteract with some other foamed materials and "airspaces" geometry. Then there is this secret wire-drawing method which imparts a special surface finish for good tranfer high audio frequencies; which also made all its earlier cables obsolete! There isn't any new technology here. You see cable makers like this one do have a good grasp of the sonic capability of their different cable models in order to assign the "correct" price. I actually bought and still using their interconnect and speaker cables. I did not wait for them to publish any white paper on this technology. They are probably just clever innovations which make the sonic difference.
I have a G-clef Gutwire pc on my cdp, AudioPower Industries PL313's for 845 tube monoblocs all fed through a Chang lightspeed 6400. They are not top notch pricewise, but for for my low power demand they are far better sounding than stock cords. Bought used, they are excellent value.
702, the 9 AWG might be too large for the IEC unless its a specially built one. Please check again, the regular stock cord is usually 3x18AWG (0.75~0.8 mm2), so 3x14 or 3x12 AWGs would be fine for this experiment. Ensure their fitness with your stockist before he cuts the cable!
For the listen, if you're familiar with the sonics of yr poweramp, you can go straight to test it, skipping the AB'g. Live with it for a while...but please keep us posted. Regards.
Costrosk, thanks, you too made an excellent practical point of regular contact surface cleaning for ic's which many of us will overlook. Any gear would only be as good as its tarnished contact.
Like i said, it helps tremendously if you have a large circle of audiophile friends to swap and try out cables before deciding.
My attempt to try understand the price of a new pc is that a quarter of the money goes to materials; another quarter to marketing and the remaining half to skilled labor. If you ever have a chance to look inside one you might understand the skill required to handmake each, one at a time. Several pc maker cannot survive making just one product.
A gifted listener-audiophile is the worst combination for a person to be. He/she is hard to please for long. Because cables do sound differently with each equipment, such person's life can be a complicated one indeed! The blissfully "filtered" listener has far easier path leading to music enjoyment. Regards.
702, your right to say the money saved could find better use elsewhere. Neither do I agree exotic cables should be priced so ridiculously high, that's why I always bought them used.
A stock powercord will have reached the point of diminished returns (pdr) when we cannot determine any more differences (sonically) between the standard coppers and PVCs used in its construction. Audiophiles who have exceptional hearing acuity are able to squeeze that last few percent beyond pdr. I can't prove it to you myself, but Seymour Shlien of Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, ON, Canada K2H 8S2 published a scientific paper "Auditory Models for Gifted Listeners" in the Audio Engineering Society Nov 2000 journal. If I may quote from the abstract: He wrote, "Some listeners are especially sensitive to minute codec quantization noise. Various pyschoacoustic tests were performed in order to measure the characteristics of these listeners. Though the auditory filter bandwidths of these listeners appeared to be normal, some had unusual abilities to detect weak signals buried in noise."
Please try to get hold of this very good publication for your scientific reference.
Coming back to our powercord. 702 may i suggest to you a very simple DIY experiment costing a few $. Prepare a pc from ordinary cable double the conductor size of your present powercord to your poweramp and try it out. Please post whether you can hear any difference. Regards.