At This Time Can We Recreate Full Range Live Music In The Home?


I read on this web site some members claim they go to the symphony orchestra and are "convinced" their system reproduces the experience. I agree with vocals, light percussion, acoustic music, light jazz, the best systems come very close. My experience comes from being a semi professional drummer for 40+ years. I currently have acoustic and electronic drums in my home. I play in a huge open space with 20 foot cathedral ceilings. I think I can state that I know what live drums sound like. Can even the six figure systems reproduce the attack and decay of a 20 inch crash cymbal? I say "maybe" in the future but not now! What makes me laugh is we audiophiles myself included will spend many, many thousands of dollars trying to reproduce the sound of a $20 triangle or a $15 woodblock or a $10 shaker. Play the song Aja by Steely Dan. I can play on my system the drum solo by the great Steve Gadd at realistic volume levels-if you dare -but it is not the same as real drums!! I don’t know if I can’t convince people that are not musicians. Not putting non-musicians down. Quoting my dad, "You don’t have to be a horse to be a horse doctor." Another quote by John Lennon. Someone asked him what he was listening to. He responded, "Dripping water."  It would be interesting to know how many of the greatest producers/engineers are or are not musicians or vocalists.
Some statistics: Soft drums 105dB, hard drums up to 130dB, kick drum/timpani 106-111dB, ride cymbal 101dB, toms 110dB, ride bell 115dB, crash 113dB, snare 120dB, rimshot 125dB. I have a system that could produce 125dB, would I -NO WAY I value my #1 instrument -my ears. So the drums are playing at 125dB peaks, now add in the other 80+ members of the symphony orchestra-how loud now? I ask again, can we at this time reproduce accurately the power of a symphony orchestra in the home? For many of us this is the Holy Grail of being an audiophile - Keep Searching!
wweiss

Showing 2 responses by phusis

@wweiss --

I ask again, can we at this time reproduce accurately the power of a symphony orchestra in the home?

The "power" of a live full scale symphony orchestra is very much about a sum of things and as such a composite term, so much indeed that the recording itself does quite a lot to minimize any attempt at a replicated experience when reproduced. Power, other than SPL is also about scale, size of image and a sense of the whole location while being totally effortless at that, which is to say the need for sheer physics to be accommodated and the ability to image properly - in a larger space/at a proper distance. Implementation is paramount, acoustically as well (i.e.: I loath over-deadened rooms from too much absorption; it kills the energy and expansion of sound, and has nothing to do with a live sound imprinting), but it's all for nothing if the speakers can't fill the space effortlessly at any desired SPL to begin with (and remember: you always need more capability than you'll ever need - it's called 'headroom'). I believe the latter part is usually underestimated, if it's even prioritized.

More specifically to the question posed: even if we wanted to, not really. Not if the impression and experience of a live acoustic symphony orchestra in a large auditorium is dear to you, and you truly take it in. Nothing reproduced comes significantly close in my experience, and in any case we can only do so much with what's afforded us via the limited nature of the recording itself. 

@mijostyn --

Wow, more of you are saying no than I would have expected. This tells me many have yet to hear a 1st class system.

I'd say it's about maintaining the importance and comprehending the nature of a live acoustic event, and being honest to that. You can't possibly speak on behave of a plethora of set-ups you've heard as anything being representative, other than (mostly) your own; 8 ft. floor-to-ceiling ESL's and sub-augmented at that isn't your daily cup of tea, even among more all-out assaults in audiophilia, and it's an important physics part wholly missing in most set-ups to approximate and truer live imprinting.  

The best systems actually have better sound than you get at most concerts and easily match the volume levels if that is what you want.

What's your specific concert context here? A live acoustic event IS the reference, unless you're badly seated and the acoustics play a severe trick on you. It seems to me you're after something else than live sound qua live sound. Matching live sound levels can be somewhat ameliorated in a home environment due to constricted spacing, which at the same time is a potential problem per above earlier mentioned; one needs "power" as it plays out in proper, not too constricted spacings, which in turn places more demands on the speakers and their size and SPL capabilities.  
@fiesta75 --

Come on SOME of you. We all know accurate reproduction of a symphony orchestra at home is not possible. End of story.

Indeed. Not being able to replicate the live event in a home setting though has been a leeway to an extend that throws off the need for physics with the get-between of convenience, spousal demands, living space restrictions, etc. - a formed product type narrative or paradigm even that has grown from these limitations. Not to mention the elusive "artistic expression" of a live event that is sought recuperated in a myriad of ways that’s really about subjectivity in searching for that lost DNA hidden within a particular recording/interpretation/set-up constellation, to please a given pair of ears and mind.

That doesn’t change the fact that trying to approximate a live event from the blunt (but necessary) perspective of physical demands on the part of the speakers in particular, is not in vain. A kind of "ersatz" of the live event claimed its equal or even superior by poster @mijostyn would seem a blasphemous notion, but this is coming from a more outright accommodation to physics and acoustics, and as such I find it an interesting handed-over experience that could instill such an impression. I would be careful though suggesting that others are in for the same realization given a set-up of equal prowess. To many the live acoustic event given its nature is a holiness even that’s simply unparalleled, because there IS NO replicating it elsewhere and through other means.

@lonemountain/Brad --

The max SPL Billy’s speakers can achieve in their largest speaker long term is about 118dB SPL 1Meter [SCM 300A]. Most of the speakers they produce for home can hit somewhere around 105dB SPL to 112dB SPL or so. This is more than enough for a non amplified piano trio, or live orchestra, but not a rock band.

The needed SPL capabilities of speakers is underestimated, certainly trying to achieve live acoustic, let alone electrically amplified sound levels and their dynamic range. Many balk at achieving live levels in the home with reference to potential hearing damage, but the vast dynamic swings of live music significantly lowers the average SPL - as one would experience at a live acoustic concert - not that daily exposition to this volume range is recommended.

The one factor to consider is that a given max SPL requirement must be reproduced comfortably by the speakers, and that’s not at the limit of their performance ceiling. So, if +105dB peaks are necessitated at the listening position at a given distance, the (typically low efficiency) speakers must have somewhat more to give for them to be effortless at these levels. Not being able to do so mayn’t have them sounding overly strained per se, not least if that’s what one is used to hearing, but once you hear speakers playing with absolute ease at these SPL’s it becomes apparent what effortlessness is about and how important it is. That’s why, as they say: headroom is your friend, and that becomes even more important in the lower frequencies where hearing acuity lessens.