Are there any issues with connecting speaker wire in this manner?


I'm considering purchasing some 14 awg solid core wire to use as speaker cable.  I will be doubling this up to make 11 awg speaker cable. My amplifiers, Red Dragon S-500, have binding posts which DO NOT have a hole drilled in the center of the shaft for inserting wire (they are hollowed out for banana plugs but that's not what I am referring to here nor do I need).  I'll be connecting the speaker wire without attachments, no spades, bananas, nor pins.  To get a good connection, it would be ideal if I could take the wire and, at the half way point, wrap it around the amplifier binding post, then run the two ends out to the speakers.  Will this work or will connecting the wire in this manner be problematic?  Do I need to cut the wire into 2 runs?  Thanks!

lcherepkai

Showing 11 responses by lcherepkai

benanders:  I haven't messed with amps at all.  They're still 100% stock except the fuses.  I did internally rewire my speakers with doubled runs of solid core 18 awg silver plated copper and some of the crossover parts were upgraded a few years back but the main wire is solid core copper.  Perhaps if this experiment goes well, I'll be replacing that wire as well.   And regarding your second paragraph, I hope I haven't come across as unappreciative.  I am grateful when folks are kind enough to share their knowledge and experience.  Truly.  

 

axeis1:  You wrote," Sure wish I had the time to waste on such a fools errand."

Congrats:  You did have the time to waste.  You did so on a useless post

lemonhaze:  You've given some very good and specific instructions which are so hard to come by.  And wrapping the end of pliers in leather, that's one of those life hacks that should have been common sense.  At the speaker end though, I'm good.  I've run the wire directly from the crossover THROUGH the binding posts.  Their only purpose is to hold the speaker cable directly onto the wire coming from the crossover.  I am considering building a short power cord using the niobium wire first as it would require a lot less wire and I really don't know how it will sound as speaker cable, of which I'll need about 24 meters so.... Maybe a meter long power cord would be the wiser first project.  And I'm finding that the molybdenum slugs I had cut recently are finally burning in completely (assumption here) as they are really sounding fine so might try to incorporate a run of that in the mix as well.  Thank you very much for sharing.  Lot's of good info here

puptent:  thank you for a well thought out response but I'm afraid I've experience that runs counter to what you've stated.   May I ask why you think the following to be true?  You wrote, "11 gauge should not be needed for speakers. 12 gauge is overkill (the conductor operates most efficiently when sized correctly for the load)."

 I have a few hundred feet of vintage wire I bought a decade ago or so.  That wire is 18 awg solid core copper with silver plating.  There are two legs which are, each, 7 of these 18 awg wires or the equivalent of 10 awg.  The speakers I was using at the time were bi-wire capable but my amp only had a single pair of binding posts so I originally ran 3 of those 18 awg wires to the satellite portion of the speaker and the other 4 to the woofers.  This sounded just fine and when I began using another amp with dual sets of binding posts, I connected that amp in this fashion for a time but, as I had a lot of this wire, I eventually had to hear it with all 7 wires going to each of the speakers binding posts, so 10awg to the woofers and 10 awg going to the satellite portion of the speakers.  I heard to no down side this wiring scheme at all and the upper bass through the mids took on a fuller sound, more fleshed out and satisfying to my ear.  The lower bass also had more weight but not at the expense of any detail and it was just as dynamic as ever.  I went back and forth a few times and the single wire configuration always had me wanting to install the extra set immediately.  

 

And then you state, "Unless exotic materials have superior numbers, inductance, capacitance, resistance, etc. stick with Silver, best conductor by far,".   I've listened to several exotic metals, both as plating, and solid core as slugs in place of fuses.   Compared to the silver Wattgate AC plugs, platinum and palladium plated Oyaide and rhodium over pure silver IeGO 8095 AC plugs were quite a big step up.  Overall, I heard greater detail and delicacy from each and a smoother presentation.  The silver Wattgates would get aggressive while these others offered more detail without the brightness. This also applies to Xhadow xlr plugs vs Oyaide Focus1 but to a lesser extent.  

And with regards to my solid core experiences vs silver, I have on hand currently, slugs of pure silver, titanium, tungsten, and molybdenum.   I'm using them in a Bel Canto DAC 2.8, Bel Canto CDT-3 transport, and Red Dragon S-500 amplifiers.  The silver slugs are very good all-around performers.  They do nothing wrong, and I could have lived quite happily with them until I heard the other materials.  Eventually, I'd would like to do a thorough review/comparison but, for brevity's sake, let me just say that the tungsten slugs have all the detail of silver while being a bit tighter, more in control, more focused, and slightly darker in tone.  The molys are just as detailed as the silvers but have better tone, sweeter and fuller and, in my main system, sound more open (that's hard to define though).  And the titanium slugs, WOW, I really like what these do MOSTLY.  I'll say going all titaniums can make vocals sound a bit weird...some vocals.  Some vocals sound quite glorious. Thats about the only downside, where I might prefer (some) silver.  Otherwise, the titanium slugs are easily more detailed, especially with regards to the clarity of each individual sound.  Everything else sounds a bit smeared out.  And titanium's ability to track sounds as they move across the soundstage is awesome!  Much of those obscure, buried down low, vocals, mutterings...etc, those become intelligible for the first time.   Sorry to rant but I'm a detail freak and titanium nails it.  So, in my experience, silver comes in 4th place, using solid core slugs, in my system.  I don't know how silver compares to tungsten/titanium/molybdenum with regards to   inductance, capacitance, resistance, etc but it doesn't matter if sound quality is the measure.

I do appreciate your response!

 

elliotbnewcombjr:  good food for thought. I may get a set of the Morris terminals and just see how I could use them.  They would probably be a good way to combine different kinds of wire as I may want to try incorporating some molybdenum wire later if the titanium and/or niobium don't quite get the tone right.  Good call and thanks!

If you've read my recent posts on using slugs instead of fuses, then you may recall that I've been experimenting with metals less used in audio applications.  To this end, I'm considering trying molybdenum, titanium, and niobium wire.  The latter two are fairly cheap but the moly is pricey.  Also, I don't see any of these wires offered in bundles as typical of speaker cable thus, I'll be using solid core and, in my experience, solid core actually sounds at least as good as stranded wire.  

 

Without using spades or bananas, the binding posts on the Red Dragon amps are a PITA, and wrapping the wire around the post would seem to offer the tightest connection without possibly stripping the threads (which I've done).  I'm obviously not much of a DIY guy and just wanted to make sure I wasn't going wire the speakers up in a compromised or possibly damaging way.  I appreciate the information all have given.  Now to go on an exotic metals shopping spree......

Jerry--won't be using the experimental metals on the bass drivers so hopefully not an issue there.  Would doubling up the doubled-up 14awg wire to a total of 8awg significantly lower the resistance?  At $26/m for the niobium, that's still much cheaper than most decent speaker cable and the titanium can be had for even less.

Ozzy---the largest diameter niobium wire I found is 14 gauge.  I was planning on getting runs twice the length I need and wrapping the amp binding post with the mid-point and then running both ends out to the speakers.  I don't want to use separate wires at the amp end as I'm concerned about stripping the threads on the amp binding posts.  I did this already once and don't want a repeat.

Thanks for all the responses.  It's good to have a wealth of knowledge to draw upon but let me clarify this, I'm not doing this in an effort to save money.  I want to hear what titanium, molybdenum, and niobium offer as speaker cables.  As slugs, the titanium and moly destroyed the copper in every way important to me.  I also have solid silver slugs, which are very good and also leagues better than the copper.  However, I find the titanium to be quite obviously more detailed than the silver and the images are so clearly delineated, it makes the other metals seem somewhat indistinct.  Titanium tracks sounds better as well, moving across the soundfield.  Pink Floyd tracks are a joy to listen to with titanium.  And the moly sounds like the best of silver but smoother and sweeter.  As far as I know, no one is making cables with these metals.  A few have used tungsten, and the reviews are generally quite favorable.  I read that the niobium resistors are top notch so why not experiment with the wire and see where it goes?  

So, I'm not interested in copper wire, either Home Depot or the best Furutech/Neotech have to offer, which I'm sure sound incredible.  I really want to hear what these other metals offer as speaker cables and even though the convenience of spades/bananas are undeniable, I feel they would likely compromise the sound.  How could they improve the sound?  Less is more!  I just want to make sure I didn't wire the system up in a way that could cause probelems

Jerry---will be trying titanium and niobium for sure, probably molybdenum too if neither of those are the sound I'm looking for as the moly adds a bit of body without losing too much detail.  It is less precise however, so hopefully won't need to use it.  I'll be getting them in 14 awg with the length being 9' from amp to speaker and will be getting them in 18' sections to bend in half/doubling them up.  I could use 2 18' sections, folded in half and lightly twisted as per suggestions here.

waytoomuchstuff:  thank you for responding to ktarver's post.  I had wanted to but just couldn't get motivated.  As to your 1st response, I've been using speaker cable that is 7 solid core 18awg silver plated copper wires per leg without termination for years.  The Red Dragon S-500's are the first amps I've used without the center pin drilled for bare wire.  The wire is big enough that it fits nicely as if they were banana plugs.  It's not a tight fit, just snug, but that's what I've been doing ever since I received the Red Dragon amps.  I never move speaker cables unless I am forced to move the speakers.  I was one of those fools that spent big bucks (back then) to get the huge Monster Cables banana plugs and, soundwise, they sucked!  That's when I discovered less can be more in audio.  Thanks!