are subwoofers anti-audiophile?

I have been into this hobby 25 years now and have noticed not a lot of us use Subwoofers in our systems.

I have 2 systems, one which is a Celestion SL700 with their Celestion System 6000 subwoofer pair with a outboard crossover-----my other system has changed quite a bit, but with always large floorstanding speakers. I have also always had adequate power to the speakers.

My floorstanding system cannot match the realism i get from my Celestion/subwoofer system. In my floorstanding system, it is almost like the bassist is backstage playing, while the rest of the band is front stange and center. This leads me to my question. Why don't most of us use subwoofers? I am a member of an audiophile club and we do system hops and no one has a subwoofer in their 2 channel systems.
Most people over use their subwoofers. Used properly- a high quality subwoofer will help 90% of the speakers out there. As a rule I say cross over between 60-80 and turn the volume down a bit and enjoy

Thanks for the input. The volume setting on the sub is 2 out of ten in a room 24X18. (Very low)

I have bass traps and other room tuning devices properly set up. I have run various room set-up CD's from the likes of RIVES etc. I really do think it was set up pretty close to perfectly.

The sub seems to have a great reputation by owners and the industry.

I simply found it did "mess with" both mids and highs in my home. A good audio friend also went through the same situation and turned off the sub for better sound. I heard his sytem with and without the sub and agreed with him.

Proper set up and room interaction etc... all serve up a very tricky situation , at best, with a sub.

All I know is when I played the sub all by itself I was amazed how how little it was actually doing. One would think a sub set-up to be so tame could never negatively impact mids, imaging, highs etc.. However,it did.
I bought a Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer (sealed design) recently because I thought that it would be a very musical sub. I did my best to integrate it with my speakers (Quad 12L2). I spent a lot of time on that until I thought I had it set up just right. Then I decided to try it with the subwoofer was much better! The Quads put out lots of bass for their size and a little bit of corner reinforcement and it just sounds a lot more integrated than I could ever manage to get when using a sub. So I am totally off of subwoofers now.

With all that said, I was a little limited in where I could place the sub. Perhaps there is a way it could have sounded better. But I don't believe you can improve the integration of bass, midrange, and treble by adding another speaker to the mix. It only introduces new variables and new issues to deal with. In all liklihood it will sound worse, if you are lucky and/or know what you are doing it may sound just as good with a bit more added low end.

I will be moving to a bookshelf speaker with a 7 or 8 inch driver in the near future, to get something with the integration I am looking for and a bit more bass weight and sense of scale.
Well grannrig I'm stumped. I guess I'd have to hear what your hearing to be of any real help. What ever sounds best to you is all that counts. - jim