are subwoofers anti-audiophile?

I am onboard with John 100%;when done properly there should be no indication of where the sub is and a change is heard when it is turned off.

"...when done properly there should be no indication of where the sub is and a change is heard when it is turned off"

My system is exactly like this. You can't tell the subs are on, until you turn them off. And when you first them on again, it doesn't seem like you've changed anything..."Are they on?" Then when you turn them off after several minutes of listening, you say to yourself, "What happened?"

To me, this is perfect sub integration.

I think that almost all music systems benefit from stereo subs IF they are integrated properly. This is due to several factors imho. First they generate air movement which is not necessarily generated even by full range speakers. Second " full range " speakers get there by either using multiple mid sized drivers ( which definately won't move much air and will roll off quickly below their limit denying you any real low frequency support) or they use a large driver which will have more difficulty integrating with the midrange and is in any event not designed purely as a low bass unit and will not be as a good as a well designed sub which needs do nothing else. As others have noted 2 subs properly set up will not be noticed except by their absence even with pure acoustic jazz. When you turn off my subs during the Duke Ellington/Louis Armstrong sessions the sound stage shrinks and the acoustic bass doen't sound as real. Sound stage is a very overlooked component to these very low fundamental frequencies. JMHO - Jim

over the years, I too have found complications, mostly with Panel/electrostats and subs, but with cone speakers, integration was fairly simple.

Zydo, I agree with you 110% here: "A good sub, set up the right way, should not even be noticed.....untill you turn it off. People don't even know I have a sub on most of the time. I'm not a "bass freak" by any means, but when I listen, if I turn the sub off, the room seems to get hollow"----your observation of "hollow" is spot on.

I am glad to hear others have noted this as well and also agree with Byroncunningham that perhaps it is an old prejudice to the times where most available subs were junk.