To cut to the chase, horns are not to my liking. While the Avantgards (the best horns I've heard) are not offensive sounding (unlike many of the cheaper horns I've heard), their midrange colorations are unacceptable. Additionally, their subwoofer does not integrate well with the horns.
I find it interesting that many horn lovers seem to choose them because of their ability to work well with low-powered SETs. However, I think most everyone agrees that the speaker has a far greater impact on the sound than any other component. Thus, my approach is to choose the speaker most to my liking, and then select an appropriate amp. Admittedly, such amps are higher-powered, and invariably more expensive than the horn-friendly SETs, but it is the only way I can achieve the kind of balanced, tonally-accurate sound I desire.
It is a curious phenomenon that while there are hordes of individuals who swear by horns, (1) horns are rarely found in high end audio shops and (2) the horn displays at audio shows (e.g., CES, the Home Entertainment Show, etc.) are rarely crowded.
Larry |
Well, I suppose you haven't listened to the newer offerings of this old principle nor have you read all of the above posts. Otherwise I agree with you. Cheers, |
I have to add my 2 cents worth since every other post seem to say they are wonderful. I have been listening to speakers of every make and model at high end shops and low end shops for 30 years and have NEVER been impressed by horns. Was turned off in the 70's by Klipsh and the other day was in a stereo shop and the salesman showed me more Klipsh. I couldn't believe it, same old stuff! Scratchy, irritating sounds eminated to the point I had to go turn it down. My wife thought there was a serious "problem" with the amp or somthing. I guess everyone must apprieciate different things because they still make horns. If horns were the only thing that existed I would not be an enthusiast. |
Not even for the 2002 Porsche Turbo Cabriolet of speakers?
I don't know what that would be, but an interesting question, no? |
I have had a pair of Altec-Lansing 846B's since 1974. They are the centerpiece of my Home theater system. Other than replacing one voice coil on one horn, they sound as good today as the day I brought them home. They are the '64 mustang of the speaker world and I wouldn't trade mine for anything out there today. |
Todd, horns are certainly unforgiving as you say. If a rig has any upline problems, then you'll certainly be more aware of that when playing through horns. If everything is setup properly then the articulation & control, definition & detail are amazing indeed.
I haven't heard the RF line, but now I'm really interested in checking them out - thanks. |
You guys should hear the new Klipsch RF series. With about 250 hrs. of break in, and the proper gear(because gear is system dependent)they sound really nice. But wrong gear and they will cut your head off.They are very neutral and revealing, will tell on your upline gear real fast. |
A very good friend of mine recently sold his Joule Electra tube monoblock amplifiers and stored his Merlin speakers in order to purchase a pair of Beauhorns and an Art Audio Jota tube amp (he retained his First Sound pre amp in his system). At first, I thought it would be very difficult for the new set-up to match or surpass his old one, especially since he had been getting really great quality sound (his system was very lively, transparent, dynamic, musical, and accurate with the Joule tube amps and Merlin speakers). Then after he installed the super tweater, I was amazed how transparent, musical, and dynamic these Beauhorns are. It is my opinion that when done right, the Beauhorn speakers can play really large and difficult pieces of music that other speakers are unable to (the music is more accurate and life-like. Orchestral music is a good example. After hearing the Beauhorns, it has altered my thinking and opinions in favor of horn speakers. |
Sean wants to snag my WHAT? Wow I'd better be more careful; I was just thinking about stopping by the radio shop & showing them off just to watch you drool! Maybe I'll only bring in one of them; that won't get you too far - hee hee.
I heard the Avant's in '99: no "cupped-hand" midrange horn resonance coloration was noticed although it was only a very brief audition. They're made out of some kind of a composite material.
As I said previously, setup is critical with horns. I'm also doing a similar mod-project (presently all on paper) of my Belle Klipsch's & still collecting the parts for this job. However as I've fine-tuned & upgraded my rig to a higher level of finesse, that cupped-horn coloration has significantly diminished to the point that it's no longer very much of an issue, even pre-modded. When talking "setup" I mean system-synergy: using the right matchup of equipment, cables, tweaks etc. It's a long-ish pathway to nirvana but I'm really very pleased, even prior to total optimization. |
Sean, Duke, I listened to a huge, Avanguarde model, quite a few times last year. The horns are polymer?, vinyl? (not metallic, anyway). Sound was ecstatic when listening to jazz or other SMALL ensembles. Female vocals also great (jazz & classical). The lower register was weaker compared to mids and highs. The sound was NOT evidently coming out of a horn -- it came out clear of "tunnel" colouration and perceptible ringing.
Please note, however, that this took place at a dealer's premises & not @ home; take it with more than a grain of salt.
As it's relatively easy for me to audition these speakers, I may be able to dig up more, if you wish.
Cheers |
Duke, i've never seen or heard the Avantgarde's. Given my past experience with listening and modifying horns, i have a REAL hard time believing that they could sound "good" to MY ears. I've read the reviews and customer raves, but that is just a LOT of horn body in terms of resonances and ringing. Do you know what they use for materials ? Is it some type of phenolic or is it metal ???
I currently have a set of Klipsch Heresy's and La Scala's. I've had and modified more than a few sets of each of these, but they keep finding new homes when i'm done with them : ) The La Scala cabinets are in REALLY rough shape and need a complete overhaul. When i get around to doing these, i'll probably just start from scratch. I've been compiling notes ( both written and in my head ) for quite some time and this would be the perfect opportunity to apply ALL of them. I may need to sneak over to Bob Bundus' house and snag his ALK crossovers first though : ) Sean
> |
Has anyone heard the Oris horn speakers distributed by Welborne Labs in the U.S. I have not heard these myself but would love to hear from those who have. I have heard the Classic Audio Reproductions/Atma-Sphere combo and really enjoyed them. |
Frap and Sean are right! For another manufacturer who has licked all the problems, Sean mentions in his post, take a look at www.acapella.de/english and click on "exalibur" on the left of the page. What they have to say of this speaker is no hype. I've listened extensively to them.
Regards,
Detlof |
I was impressed by Living Voice and Acapella horns, driven by Atmasphere & 300B SE's (can't remember which). Acapella use composite matl for the horn, so no metalic ringing.
The midrange, the sense of space the holographic imaging were outstanding on both occasions (listening to female vocals). As with Sean, the venue was a hotel room with no treatment.
Great horns also to be had from Tannoy, JBL, and Lowther and others... Also listened to a pair of PRE-WW2, modified, WE horns originally used in a cinema!!! Yes: impressive (and massive).
Often bass-shy, horn-loaded speakers usually sport conventional woofers for the lower register. Matching the sound in a seamless sounding package is tricky!
Cheers. |
Sean -
I remember well the Classic Audio speakers (I forget the model; "T" something, I think) driven by Atma-Spheres at the 2001 CES - a very musical combination. Absolutely no hint of honk. Vibrant and richly textured, full-bodied, harmonically correct, and easy to listen to long-term. The system had very little signature of its own - each recording had a unique presentation and tonality, instead of all sounding the same (which is what happens when a speaker imposes its signature on the sound).
What kind of horns do you have? What did you think of the Avantgardes? |
Any speaker that makes use of metal throated horn bodies can tend to sound hard, bright, glaring, piercing, ringy, metalic, etc... It is not necessarily the driver itself but the horn body adding its' sonic signature. Anybody that thinks that this is incorrect needs to dissassemble ANY metalic horn and simply "flick" it with your finger. You will hear a very resonant "riiiiiinging tone" that is bell like in clarity. Any type of vibration applied to the horn throat, such as mechanical resonance from the driver attached to it, can excite that "bell like ringing" to various extents.
Talking through the throat of the horn will also demonstrate how the horn body can effect tonality. This is where it pays to have someone that knows what they are doing design the horn body and then use that horn within the frequency range that it is most effective.
If special attention is paid to the design ( flare rate, materials used, damping, baffle diffraction, mounting, etc..), horns can sound EXCELLENT. As a case in point, the only system that i've ever seen get a standing ovation from the audience after a demonstration at an audio show consisted of horns made by K.A.R. ( Klassic Audio Reproductions ) being driven by Atma-sphere OTL ( output transformer-less ) tube amps. With some well chosen vinyl cuts, the sound was outstanding. All of this in a standard hotel suite with NO room treatments whatsoever. Sean
> |
Edle, Since the Japanesee and the rest of the Asian world, has embraced this type of transducer, as well as being the first culture to recognise and endorse the return of vacume tubed equipment, I can assure you horns are no joke. When my Japanese friends tell me that JBL Hartsfields, WE horns in custom enclosures from the 1950s etc., are close to the best ever,when driven by great amps, I gotta beleive there IS quite a bit to it. The Asian community, as a whole, seems to have the ability to spot greatness in sound, well before the rest of the world realises the achievements........Frank |
Horns are great esp. if you like the punch / slam / dynamics of live music. Setup is critical, but the rewards are very worthwhile. A forum archive search brings up 54 references to horns in the speaker catagory alone - I suggest you pursue that lead. Below I have pasted in the search link for you (first entry below links to the above-referenced 54 finds). Below that are 10 direct links to individual posts from the aforementioned 54. There is a lot of good info here:
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr_srch.pl?0&1&procsrch&3&4&
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&989249073&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&988933562&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&986076653&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&981725620&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&980394513&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&979415558&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&973282698&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&969595915&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&936412039&read&keyw&zzhorns
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&922525017&read&keyw&zzhorns |
I switched to horns 5 years ago and have never looked back--but ,of course,I attend live music 40 or 50 times a year--both old Altec VOTTs and Edgarhorns. my good friend JGH agrees with me 100% |
Older horns can still sound really good in properly set up. Klipsch, JBL and Altec Lansing sometimes still give me goosebumps when I hear them at my dad's. |
The harshness is the source not the speakers.Listen with a viynl set up.Digital is the joke. |
I have owned a pair of Klipsch corner horns and a pair
of Klipsch Lascala's in the past and thought they both
sounded great! Tube amps are definately the way to go
with these super efficient speakers. I've had others that
complain about the harshness of the "horn sound", but they
will play very loudly with little power!
Dave |
anyone responding with " simply a joke" may ship their horns c.o.d.
kurt |
