Keslerd - Ivestigate class D Icepower amps. I remember reading that they work nice with Be718s. |
"Also, I would recommend buying a subwoofer since you're not planning to
replace the BE-718, which only go to 42Hz, and therefore are missing a
significant range of bass where much of the music lies."
Lowest bass or electric bass string is 41.2Hz (I think). Piano goes down to 27Hz (A) but is seldom used. Unless somebody listens to symphonic orchestra with big drums going down very low or needs special effects for the home theater than 42Hz should be fine (if its really 42Hz).
I'm perhaps missing something but there were known bass strings reaching 17.5Hz. I don't see (hear) any sense since it's not audible. Tvad - can you comment? |
Tvad - I understand, but shouldn't 42 Hz be fine if somebody listens to jazz or popular music (and not the organs or double bassoon). |
Tvad - it's a trade off. I asked the question because I plan to upgrade my speakers. Getting lower end (lower than necessary?) will cut on definition, imaging etc (within the same price range). In absolute terms I agree (if price is not important). Lipinski 707 speaker is an excellent example of it. They sell sub to go with it but once you get total price there will be another better speaker with limited low end. |
Tvad - you have much more experience with audio gear than I do, but it seems to me that there is some correlation between quality of the speaker and its price tag. Good transducers are expensive (tweeters included) and designer have certain constrains. Mentioned Lipinski's speakers (with "jaw dropping" imaging) would cost much more with extended bottom end.
I'm just saying that 30Hz doesn't come free and there might be better use for the money if music that you listen to doesn't require absolutely faithful reproduction of organs or double bassoon. I don't see how difference between 40 and 30Hz can change playback of bass guitar - I don't question it does, but just trying to understand it. |
Tvad - I'm just trying to understand what makes the difference. As for the lack of correlation between price and quality - are you saying there is none and everything is just random? Can one purchase $1k speaker as good as $50k speaker? |
Keslerd - Do you think it adds extension, definition, amplitude, punch or all of the above? |
That's how you do "liquid"?!! I was getting "liquid" to hear it "liquid" but gum method is definitely cheaper. |
Dcrookham53 - I'm afraid I might be one of them - she often mentions cruel husband that has systems in 4 rooms. Sorry. |
Tvad - I found bass to be directional in spite of claims tha it is not and some LP recording that were mono below 150 Hz. It is probably in harmonics but wouldn't sub make it worse.
Also - don't you feel that speakers like Revel Saloon designed to go very low are better choice than smaller speakers + sub. Price wise second solution might be cheaper but very good subs are not cheap. |
Yes, but that's not helpful to the OP, who has indicated his intention to keep his bookshelf speakers.
Sorry - I lost the focus. |
Keslerd - bigger is not always better. People use very thick wire to get lower resistance (and slightly lower inductance as well) but choke in series with the woofer is probably in order of 0.1 ohm and fighting for ultra low cable resistance doesn't make a sense. Skin effect in copper starts at about gauge 18 (20kHz) and might start having some effect in very thick wires. Some people and web sites will tell you that it's non-audible but the same people/web sites claim that type of metal (copper, silver gold) is non-audible.
Stranding wires help but you have two problems here. Strands should be isolated - otherwise current tend to go to outside and jumps from strand to strand. Second problem is that even if surface area is increased by stranding they still sit in each-others magnetic field and skin effect still applies. Many manufacturers put isolated strands around hollow core reducing effectively strand to strand magnetic field.
12 gauge sound perhaps as low as I would go. Audioquest made for a while very successful speaker wire Type 4 that had single conductors and gauge 14.
I use acoustic Zen Satori (very thick!)that in single run configuration can be bought used for about $250. Analysis Plus speaker cables are also very good and cheaper than AZ. I had AQ before but I think that it is in general overpriced (you pay for a name).
The strange thing is that if you ask how important speaker cable is most of the people will say that it's much less important than IC, but if you ask which one should be shorter than most of people will recommend long IC and short speaker cable. At least that was my impression. |
Al - that exactly what I said "if wire gauge is properly chosen".
There is a lot of hype, but also there is a lot of experts and each of them claim something similar about different aspects of the speaker cable construction. If you add their opinions you find out that lamp cord from Home Depot is as good as the best speaker wire. I had cable like that once - cheap very thick, stranded and sound was horrible.
I wonder what explanation "experts" give for power cord differences - that will be fun. I don't know why power cords sound different but I don't question that they do, and just maybe not being renown "expert" allows me to still learn. |
Shadorne - I can make case for bad power supply being less affected by power cord than very good one. Here it comes:
Average value of current being drawn from power supply caps is taken from transformer in very sharp pulses. These pulses heat up transformer (higher harmonic content heats-up the core and much higher rms value than average value heats-up the copper) and appear on the power cord. Sharpness and amplitude of these pulses can be determined from diagrams: conduction angle that depends on ratio of transformer output impedance to ESR of capacitor.
Amplifier with poor capacitors (higher ESR) will have longer pulses of smaller amplitude and will possibly be less dependant on gauge of power cord (for voltage drops) or shielding (for polution).
Mentioned conduction angle is a Catch 22 for designers - in order to know how big transformer should be (to accomodate for bigger losses caused by sharp current pulses) conduction angle has to be found. It require value of transformer's output impedance - not known since transformer is not designed yet.
I made this a little bit technical to show that anything can be proved. Somebody can probably make equally valid case that proves just the opposite. |
Kirkus - Tubes should be better then, for reducing power related hash. I'm getting interested in power cables and their effect on the sound. My Benchmark DAC has regulated linear supply while my Rowland 102 has a switcher. I have to find some testimonies on power cables - I'm not sure where to start - possibly with the same brand as my interconnect and speaker cable (Acoustic Zen). Is there any science behind power cables other than gauge, inductance and shielding?
Your DC coupling observation is very interesting one and suggest that good sound depends more on the quality of this cap than we think. Good low ESR low inductance caps are expensive (like slit foil type) and fixing cheap ones with Mylar cap in parallel can make it worst by adding lossless cap in parallel to inductive cap creating in effect resonant circuit that rings (and is in the signal path). |
