ARC Ref 5se inferior to LS28?

I just don't agree with some of the sentiment expressed.  Some people really have a stone in their shoe regarding Audio Research.  I don't know if the LS28 is better than the REF 5SE.  I would say no, until I heard them side to side. 

Yes, Audio Research upgrades (SE) or replaces components all the time.  so do most larger companies with R&D departments.  I agree that companies do this for many reasons.

1.  They have to stay above or competitive with other like companies.

2.  They have to personnel and manpower to keep upgrading and producing new products.

Smaller companies simply can't afford to keep coming out with newer and better every four or five years.  It simply isn't cost effective for them. Parts storage, maintenance of equipment, etc.

It is also very unfair to compare how one company operates vs another. Unless you know the ins and outs of each company, the corporate directives, directions, etc. 

The real test is, are they producing very good to exceptional products? Yes or no?  Were you happy with your equipment when you bought it? 

There is no law that says companies can't keep innovating simply because you bought a product. so car companies are supposed to freeze innovation on cars simply because you bought a car from them?

Nope.  Volvo used to be the only company I know of that keep a production line for a particular model for long periods of time without change.  Even that doesn't happen anymore, because they have to complete with the nine million (exaggeration) other autos out there in that particular price point and class.

All I can say is that Audio Research makes quality equipment.  And they are one of the very few manufacturers that I can think of (Atmosphere, Pass Labs, Naim, Martin Logan) that will still repair their older equipment.

That really says something about these manufacturers.  That also means that they must have replacement parts available.  That also says something.

Simple answer. You won't know if the LS28 is better than the REF 5SE (doubt it) unless you hear them side by side in the same  system and changing nothing except the units.

enjoy

This is actually funny.  Its like there is a dark back room with old gray haired  men conspiring to upgrade equipment one component at a time over the years to capitalize on the market.  Heck, that may actually have some truth to it. 

So, how does one purchase cars?  If you know the manufacturer is going to completely change the car, body style in the next model year, do you buy the current version? or wait until the new one comes out?

This is persona decision time.  How much of a discount will I get on the current model vs the new one?  I'm not big on cars depreciating immediately after I drive off the dealer's lot.  That sucks.

For, me, I could probably afford to buy new equipment, but I really don't like the ridiculously high audio equipment prices. So, I try to buy demo equipment or used.  That means I'm not getting the absolutely very new equipment anyway, or as I said, maybe I will, but it will be a discounted demonstration unit.

I couldn't care less if the company comes out with a newer piece.  As long as I can get my piece repaired by the company and as long as this piece sounds good enough for me to buy it in the first place.

As the level many of us are at, it takes a lot to make us think about upgrading. 

For example.  I purchased a REF 3 pre-amp years ago.  When the REF 5 came out, I listened to it and it was slightly better than the REF 3, but not better enough to justify (funny word) upgrading.  However, the REF 5SE was a much better sounding pre-amp, and I could see myself upgrading to a  REF 5SE.  Now the REF 6 is out and there is no way, I'm spending that amount on it.  I'll get a REF 5SE instead if the opportunity comes up.

When ones says that they are "there" with their system, noticeable improvements are stupidly expensive are typically not cost effective we are in the diminishing returns area.

Pass Labs comes out with new and improved all the time.  Any yes, they do very good work.

Bottom line, Audio Research equipment holds a pretty good resale value, so, not much harm there,. and 2) most importantly, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything. 

Come on everyone, enjoy the ride and the music

Seems most items have a price point category and a level of competition.

Audio Research apparently places their "REF" series in the same category as other products of the same price point.

In my opinion, when you are in the high end of audio play back equipment, Jaw dropping differences are very rare.  I really haven't heard serious Jaw dropping differences in a while.  I have and do hear differences all the time.  But they are subtle.  The questions to me are 1) am I there yet?  2) are the differences such that it "justify" (that word again) me coming out of pocket for this "upgrade", 3) can I afford this upgrade?

I am definitely not in the amp of the month club.  I upgrade when I feel something is missing and that new piece fills that gap.  or (and I think many of us are in the category also), a piece comes along that is as good or better than your original  piece and some one offers a price that you simply cannot walk away from.  That does happen.

I "upgraded" from a REF 3 to a REF 5SE last year.  REF 3 to REF 5 wasn't worth the change.  The differences weren't that great to justify it.  However, The REF 5SE was enough of a difference.  Don't get me wrong.  Unlike some I have read hear on Audiogon, just because one upgrades from one piece to another does not invalidate  the original piece.  I would tell most people (if they cannot afford a piece in the REF 5SE or REF 6 range to definitely get the REF 3.  Heck, I'll tell people to get an SP 11 or SP 15 also.  With new tubes, these rock).  But back to my point, I purchased the REF 5SE at a really nice price for me. Almost couldn't pass it up.  But, just a quickly, I found out about Audio Research's trade in/trade up policy.  They offered me more for my REF 5SE towards a REF 6 than what I paid for it.  Also, the REF 6 was a demonstration unit from Audio Research called an  R unit. or some such.  It was used by a reviewer and returned to Audio Research.  So, I got it at a really nice price.  Also, It only had 24 hours on it.  I felt good about the purchase.  And before  I returned the REF 5SE, I got to do direct comparisons between the REF 3, REF 5SE and REF 6.  Oh boy, what fun.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't believe that the LS 28 is better than even the REF 5SE let alone the REF 6.  However, I know there is trickle down technology in the LS28 and you really can't go wrong with it either.  The REF 6 is at another level.  Same as the REF 10. Wow, what a piece of equipment.  Great sound.  If I could get my hands on one for a "price I can't walk away from", I would probably do so.

enjoy