Apogee vs Soundlab

Lots of good points here but like many have hinted, you have to determine a price range and then do a shootout between the models by each company in that price range. To conclude that one brand here is better than another is a futile attempt for a simplistic answer.

I owned Maggie 3.3 and 3.5 for a combined 6 years. And then I heard the SoundLab U1 and A1. I ended up with the A1's.

The Maggies were NOT even close in so many ways. The Maggie series 20 was only marginally refined over the series 3.X compared to the significant improvement with the A1's. The A1's have a top-to-bottom tonal coherency the Maggies could only dream of. With the Maggies I had to really push the level up to get some serious dynamic contrasts; this is not necessary with the A1's. And I can sit anywhere in the room with the SLs and enjoy the performance vs. the rather narrow sweet spot with the Maggies. But really it is all about the low-level detail and clarity throughout the range that sets the A1's way ahead of the Maggies. Comparisons here were with both speakers in my home with Wolcott 220 monos and CAT JL-3 monos. I now run exclusively with the JL-3's into the A1's.

I also had a chance to directly compare the Maggie 3.5s to the Duetta and there were pros/cons of each. Each speaker outperformed the other at opposite ends of the frequency spectrum. And both speakers played effortlessly - no strain. Overall I preferred the 3.5s. Perhaps the top-tiered Apogee models resolve many problems with the lesser priced models, but after hearing all the praise about Apogees, I came away from this audition somewhat disappointed.

The A1's have an incredible coverage into the bottom octave. I have no doubt that other speakers out there have more punch, but what the A1's do here is truly impressive. As for depth, well, I have the A1's 6 feet into the room and to sit nearfield gives a most incredible degree of depth behind the speakers. With the JL-3s and the new Aria WV preamp, it's hard to imagine that things get much better.

I think it truly comes down to how good the amp is and the associated equipment. Even a mediocre IC in the chain could easily sway someone in one direction or another.

As for why the 200wpc ARC amp struggled with the SoundLab speakers, I am not surprised. Compare the output transformer in the ARC to that in the CAT and it should be obvious why the CAT controls these speakers and the ARC has a hard time. ARC amps are fine for flat 8-ohm loads.....not SL's or Apogees or even Maggies for that matter!

Ultimately you need to compare amp/speaker combinations rather than simply speaker to speaker. One amp could be a killer with one speaker and not so good with the other and vice versa.

Thanks Dave...The reason I brought the Maggies into the discussion was because someone here said that the Maggies come close to the SoundLab sound.....and this is not at all accurate. I realize the price differential of those other models, and that was a point I made - to identify a price range and then compare speakers in that price. But there is to be expected somewhat of a house sound within each product line. This is clearly the case with Magnepan and SoundLab and so why not Apogee as well.

Gallant_Diva: I think your response was for Detlof...not for me as I have no experience with nor opinion on the larger VTLs. As for reviews, I pay attention as there might be a chance to get a feel for how one product compares to another if the reviewer makes such an effort. But this often is not the case, and thus the review is pages of worthless superlatives rather than comparatives. I do agree that class A/B/C ratings are of no value. There are far too many products in the same "class" that easily outperform many others.

Rleff: I have older A1's updated with the later toroidals. And with tips from Albert Porter, I bypassed the fuse. I also replaced that horrible "brilliance" rheostat with a gold plated double-contact selector switch of 6 resistance values (values 0-> 2 ohms range). Treble clarity significantly improved. And with an occasional treble-hot recording, being able to attenuate the treble a little bit is mighty nice. It was amazing how much treble grain existed with the original rheostat.

The only two "outstanding" amps that I have so far heard with the U1s and the A1s are the CAT (JL-2 and JL-3) and Atmasphere (MA1 series). These are a great match with the SL's. They have their pros/cons as I have stated in other A'gon threads. I think it comes down to how these pros/cons balance with those of the rest of a system. I run with the CAT as I like the dynamic contrasts and the initial attack of the notes that I have not heard another amp do. I have found it easier to get some of the strengths that the Atmasphere has over the CAT at the preamp.

Chris, it would help if you would share what systems/amplifiers were paired with the A1's you heard that made you walk away with your "rather sharp and grainy treble" observations.

Chris, before you start a process that will likely never get you to the desired result with your ss amp, you need to take more seriously Atmasphere's comments regarding the SL's performing at their best with a tube amp. With this said, I can drive the A1's with a Counterpoint NPS400 and there is no brightness nor fatigue at all; I just don't have the degree of detail and refinement in the trebles and the rest of the range for that matter.

With the adjustable 0-to-2 ohms selector, I run it right in the middle. Going to 2 ohms has a significant reduction in treble level. A 10-ohm resistor in series with the SL's treble circuit will have a MAJOR subtractive impact.