Dear Lew, No need to worry about 'my' thread. It will be
valued according to the number of the contributions made
and not according to the subject matter in which individul
contributors are interested. Like Henry Dover want to
show that his country does not belong to the developing
kind. One can get the best caps and resitors (even )in
New Zealand is the massage. |
Dear Lew, there was some Japanese guy from Tahiti who
called him self Walter. He started the first production of
the replica B-60. I think he made the drawings and ordered
the manufacturing in Hong Kong. But he was not able to sell
them for more as $ 500 a piece while this was not sufficient
to cover his own cost. So he give up. I assume
that this manufacturer from Hong Kong started the second
trial. My only problem with this,say, Hong Kong produced
B-60 is the mentioned screw which is made from some soft
kind of metal. My idea is to order one made from the 'gun
matal' because I assume that this one will be better suited
to 'slide' against the internal steel collar.
I also think that the dimension of the pin in front of this screw
and along which the internal collar moves (up and down)
need to be exactly made. Without any play that is.
Otherwise the tonearm will also move sideways.
Meanwhile Ikeda san (re)introduced his original B-60.
I nearly ordered one but thought to be wise to first ask
for the price. Very wise indeed. I nearly got a heart attack
when I have seen the German price . The only importer
in Europe is in Germany. |
Dear Jonathan, In the first place I really hope that your
new IT-VTA-06 is much better as the old-fashioned made
B-60 so I can buy from you the old one(grin).In the second
place I even posted a picture of the 'incriminated part'
which is a small screw with a pin on its 'nose' to the seller
from whom I bought the replica. Despite my 3 added
emails I heard nothing from this seller while I also made
some suggestion how to improve this part. I am not sure
about my assertion but think that 'steel on steel' is not
the optimal combination for 'glide' purposes. I.e. the
internal collar need to move up and down along this pin.
I think that this screw with the pin in front should be
made from bronze or rather 'gun metal'.
As a brave Serbian warrior I am not afread to contradict
even J. Carr. But there are some old-fashioned machinist
who still swear by the old lathes and categorically claim
that the talent of the machinist is more imortant then the
used kind of lathe (grin). |
The basic principle of identity relation looks so obvious
and easy to understand: 'whatever is true about some object
will stay true by substitution of one name for the other
with the same reference'. For some reasons logicians an
mathematicians can't do without 'substitutio salva veritate'.
When I stated at school that 3+4 don't look
to me as identical with 7 my theacher responded with:'that
is because you are an imbecile Andric'. I learned (much)
later from Frege that different sense(s) (meanings?) may
have the same reference. While the ontological status of
numbers is not (yet) clear it seems reasonable to state
that 3+4 and 7 refer to the same, uh, object.
Even more tricky are the so called 'descriptive names'.
There are to many objects in the universe so we don't
actually have names for them all.
So 'the teacher of Alexander' or 'the designer by Lyra'
will produce true or false identity statment if we name
Aristoteles instead of Plato or J. Carr instead of,say,
Van den Hul.
Now what about: the replica B-60 from Hawaii, the replica
from Taiwan and the replica from Hong Kong? It looks as
if we moved from scarcity to a state of abundance. That
is when we add the new Ikeda B-60. Alas. The guy from
Hawaii (Syntax) is the same guy whom I moved to Tahiti.
'Our' Japanese Walter. I exchnged about 10 emails with him
and know that he made the drawings but the instrument is
made in Taiwan or Hong Kong. I also wrote to the seller of
the replica but got the wrong person answer. I at last got
the right person called Tien who was very kind and helpful.
He promissed to make for me this damn screw from
bronze. He also stated that the same B-60 is sold from
Taiwan as from Hong Kong. So we are talking about one and
the same replica.
Assuming that this one is made on the most modern CNC lathe
I am curious if the 'old-fashioned' made Ikeda B-60 is
better? |
Dear Syntax, That is why I love my German group. They
always agree with me. There is, alas, no such thing
as the category 'wanted stuff' on our A'gon market.
So I was forced to use the 'selling category' as if my
intention was to sell the original B-60. There were
more as 250 viewers in the first day of my 'listing'.
There are more as 13 days since and I got not one single
offer. If you had not mentioned your anticipated price
I would write an very charming and polite email to you
but for this kind of money I can get the new Ikeda B-60.
I hope that my naming J. Carr next to Aristiteles may
have some influence on his reaction to my request to sell
to me the 'old-fashioned made' B-60 which he still owns. |
Now that Syntax mentioned the price for the original B-60
I feel 'entitled' to name the price(s) for the new one.
Because of the possible liabilty by the mentioned heart attack
I was reluctant to do so. With the German sensibility I
was informed that the retail price is 1880 euro but because
Nicole liked my name I could get the precious for only 1550 euro.
BTW I got my 'perfect' siver wired FR-64S for 1200 euro.
Like Lew I reconsidered this sticky silicon oil in the
replica with the assertion that this stuff has also some damping function. |
Addendum. I think Lew will have less problems now to
understand the wonders to which the old Maranz 7 is
capable. He may also be interested in the price of 'the
water' because his old Beweridge may need some.
Regarding Australia. I wanted to speed up its developing
potential and lend out one of my better LOMC to 'some'
Aussie. He wrote to me to have never before experienced
such a cart. The best he has ever heard. But , to my big
surprise, the cart was returned after 10 days or so without
any explanation. 'My Gosh' I thought he is probaly insulted
by some of my Serbian jokes. Those however are not
intended as jokes but more like a kind of teasing. So, for
example, by his knee operation I wanted to comfort him
and posted to him the 'Serbian romatic version' of his mis
fortune. According to this interpretation he was catch by
her husband who happely had no firing guns of any kind but
only some baseboll stick...
. |
Well I am glad with any contribution but so far only Lew and I wrote about the replica. To summarize: he is satisfy with its functionality and has only some small esthetical problem with the (sticky) siicon oil while my only problem is this damn screw. But what about Thekong's sample, irrespective if its 'fabricator' is from Taiwan or Hong Kong?
Dear Dover, It was wise from me to first check the price of the new B-60 before ordedring one. What is the price per liter of your Holly Water? |
Dear J.Carr, From your reaction I see that you also consider our forum and more in particular this thread as a life thretening affair. I fear that my following request
will be even more dangerous. However the question is connected with our previous 'dispute' about the modern versus the old lathes. What is your opinion about the difference between the 'old-fashioned' FR-64 S and the(new) Ikeda IT-345? I own both but am very reluctant to try the later because of Syntax . He is 2 m big and lives in my neighbourhood but not in yours. BTW the context is similar to Dover's 'Holy water' in the sense that for some among us the FR-64S is the 'Holy Grail'. |
Dear Carr, The Romans stated long ago : de gustibus non
disputandum est. That is why we do this all the time
since. I understand your 'problem'. As a kind person very
reluctant to insult whomever but as a scientist obliged
to tell the truth. This is probably only possible with
a careful and diplomatic choice of the used words. But
your separation between objective and subjective aspects
involved give me 'some' idea about the difference between
the younger and older, uh , 'brothers'. I intend to compare
them and eventual keep my conclusion for myself.
I fear this 'huge German' but also want to keep our friendship
intact. The device being ''don't thouch someone else Holy grail''.
Even the Serbian warriors can't do without corps diplomatique
at present (grin). |
Come on ... Syntax. Or is your sense for humour limited to
your own? |
Dear Lew, There is this common belief that 'big guys' are
friendly and soft because they don't need to fear anyone.
I see that you are more convinced by economical reasons.
My belief however is based on mutual friends. Aka 'the
German group' with Dertonarm as our leader.
Regarding Thuchan I don't believe that he could be offended
by the most eloquent person in our forum. His problem
is/was those moderators. They are the reason why he left the forum. |
Hi all, I got the new (bronze) screw from Tien the seller of
the B-60 replica. My assumption that this screw caused
my problem was right. No 'sideway' movement of the collar
of my FR-64 anymore. So I am glad to be able to recommend
the replica. For the price of $450 there is no contest and
I think that each owner of the FR 64/66 tonearms should
own one. Like Lew I think that this VTA adjuster is indispensable.
Regards, |
My dear ''other Slavic brother'' (from Canada). Probably because of my age and income I overlooked the obvious. 20 carts cost, say ,
+$ 20K. Adjusting the VTA for each LP is for free. Big difference
I woud think.
|
I hope I am not using my age to often as excuse? But because
of my age I forget to mention chakster suggestion to squeeze this
damn screw with a pair of tongs. The material of which this screw
is made is not steel but some softer material. So one can ''extend''
the diameter of this screw by (careful) squeezing force and repeat the trial till the screw fits the distance to the wrench.
|
''Look in the mirror'' has, except metaphorical also some other meanings. We ''the Serbian warriors admire and love our Russian brothers. Anyone can see that I usually refer to ''our'' chakster as my ''Slavic brother''. However no single Serbian would ever buy an Lada if he can afford whatever German car. On eBay I regular see Russian listings but would not even dream to buy any ''hifi stuff'' from there. In some sense this can be described as ''prejudice''. In my case a ''double kind''. So I am not only surprised that my Slavic brother can afford an B-60 but much more that the thing was/ is available in the Russian Federation. Those new rich Russians obviously changed Russian usual market conditions. Now regarding this ''damn screw''. After long thoughts I decided to buy an professional (aka German+ digital) caliper. According to ''measuring is knowing'' principle no (other) argument kinds can surpass this one. Anyway no chance to otherwise satisfy Lew's criterions in such matters . Well my steel (?) screws which caused the problem measure at or on their ''nose'' 1.8mm while the moving collar trench for the up and dawn movement is 2mm. My ''gun metal'' samples are 1.9 mm. So while the problem is about fractions of one mm the results are very different. Those ''damn details''. |
My dear ''other Slavic brother''. B-60 is not an VTA but an SRA adjuster. As I mentioned in my previous post those ''damn details'' are about fractions of one mm. No way you can do this with your ''PITA method''. You need to loose two screws and manual adjust the arm level. Then you need to use some magnifier glass to be able to check this pale aluminum scale on the FR-64 collar. I am not able to see 2 mm difference on this scale. My assumption is that you never owned the B-60 so you have no idea what you are talking about (grin).
|
Dear Lew, I don't agree with you assertion that B-60 will work as any other VTA adjuster. The reason is dynamic function of the FR-64. This means that both dynamic function as well VTF adjustment are function of the same spring. I am not mechanical engineer but don't believe that this spring will work different depending from the ''up'' or ''down'' position of the arm in relation to the record surface. |
The question is ''what is the optimal B-60 adjustments and what are the variables''? The variables are the record thickness, the bodies and cantilevers (angle) dimensions and the length of the trench in the inside , moving part, of the construction. The trench determine max up and down movement of the arm. The ''initial conditions'' to be established are parallel position of the arm with stylus in the grove by recommended VTF. Easy to establish with those small ''levels'' put on the headshell. By positioning the arm in the B-60 halfway in the trench one get the optimal position for up and down adjustment. For ''on the fly adjustment'' one need, in my opinion , to remove the sticky silicon oil and substitute for grease. Much more smooth movement of the arm. This means no force is needed to move the round adjuster. In order to get repeatable results one need to use test records. I try to get at least 60 microns pure by each of my MC carts. If possible that is. Anyway 50 microns as minimum. For masochist who like to adjust those variables by hearing there is sufficient ''up an down'' space for their trial.
|
Dear Lew, Each time you mention or suggest Newton I feel uneasy. Sometime I have difficulty to remember the name of my mom while you ''demand'' from me to remember physics from my college of 60 years ago. So instead of ''your gravity argument'' I will use the ''pudding argument'' . I performed ''some'' repeatable experiments which are ''scientific'' in the sense that anyone who owns both the FR-64 and B-60 (+ measuring scale) should get the same result. My ''theory'' was that the spring tension in the VTF adjuster by the FR-64 ''does not care'' at which level the tonearm is in relation to the VTF. So I started with parallel position , the scale on the (SP 10) platter at the level of the ordinary (170g) record. The VTF was exactly 2 g. Then I moved the arm up to about 2-3 mm and measured again the VTF which was as before 2 g. Then I moved the arm to its original (parallel position) and from there for 2-3 mm down . I got again 2 g as result. I think that the only way to refute my finding is to put some huge magnets under your beloved SP 10,III when measuring the ''up'' and ''down'' position on your B-60 (grin). |
Dear Cleeds, Look at my previous post (12-10-2018). I mention there already dynamic function of the FR-64. There are hardly any perfectly flat records. That is why dynamic tonearms are invented. Static tonearms will react different by ''crooked'' records. Losing pressure (=weight, force) ''down'''and increasing pressure ''up''. But you need to convince lew(m) not me (grin). |
Dear Lew, See (google) ''FR 64 S Thomas Schick''. There are pictures illustrating rewiring of the FR-64. One can also see the spring for dynamic function and VTF adjustment. |
@ct0517 , I have passed many exams but never (dare) to say: ''I am sorry Professor but I don't understand the question''. But you are not my Professor so I do dare to say this to you. |
''Slavic Riddle?'' One of them collect speakers , the other collect cartridges an the third collect cartridges, tonearms and TT's (chakster). What they have in common is the same hobby. |
''To change VTA for every record would require to be a 'B type''.
But except for some weird masochist this make no sense.
The most records are 170g which means the same thickness.
Our ''initial conditions'' were parallel position of the arm in relation
to the record surface. There is then no need to change the VTA.
By 180 g. records one would need to increase the VTA for, say,
1mm . I am not aware of other record thickness so some ''rule''
for ''all records'' does not exist.
If I was more brave I would say to my Professor: ''I am sorry but
your question is not clear''. My experience is that most people
(including some Professors) have no idea what ''all'' means.
So how can they use this so called ''quantifier'' which function is
to express generality in correct way ? ''All'',''most'', ''some'' are not
names which function as reference or denoting. ''Someone has
stolen my car'' express the assumption that ''there is a person
such...'' etc. That is why this quantor is called ''existential''. It
assumes existence of some person who has stolen my car. But
if I forget where I parked my car or was drunk the assumption
can't be true.
|
mulveling, I was not able to find expression ''gnarly'' in my English
dictionary but assume that you mean ''worn out srews''. Those which
function is to fasten the arm on the collar can be bought as separates. Also with the right Allen key. The original FR screws have
an plastic piece on their ''nose'' to prefent damage on the aluminum
skale or steel parts. I made those myself and glued on the screws
''nose''. I hope you will be able to fasten your ''old B-60'' firmly this
way. |
