Well I managed to pick up an Exclusive P3 and have been playing it for just over a week now.
Built like a tank, looks gorgeous and has great in built isolation. What a great table period and I am a very happy chappy.
Obviously early days, but I feel I now have two ref tables (for me) that sound different enough that I can play any of my records and be truely happy with the sound.
Both the Raven AC-3 and P3 sound absolutely sublime with the amazing new Ortofon MC A90 cart. |
Thanks, T_bone and Downunder. I have heard good things about the stock tonearm on the Exclusive P3, also (probably from T_bone by private e-mail). Still you must admit that the choice of tonearms is limited and needs to be of similar length to the stock one. Someday I have got to hear a P3 myself in order to make my own judgment. It was significant to me that a P3 owner told me that he favored one of his belt-drive tts (a Micro Seiki, I think) over the P3, altho the P3 was his second favorite of his many turntables. Meantime, I have been happy with my SP10 Mk2A in a slate plinth with RS-A1 tonearm and Ortofon MC7500 cartridge. Downunder, I think there are many $10K tts that are very good and many others that are way over-priced and could not compete with a tweaked Garrard 301/Lenco L75/SP10/etc. But I tend to think the Exclusive P3 (not the Rega P3) is at least competition for ANY $10K tt sold today. If anyone can figure out what I just wrote, let me know. |
Lewm
the 10k was only a reference point that I wanted to convey. ie Is the P3 competitive with the top % of tables available these days, not a rega 3.
me, I still luv the look of the P3.
cheers |
Lewm, the space really isn't there for a second tonearm on-plinth, and if one tried, THAT would require major surgery on the plinth. If one wanted to put one on a pod behind the plinth, that might work, but it would have to be a loooong arm. According to the Pioneer tech who did the overhaul on mine, the existing arm can actually be removed and replaced quite easily without doing anything to the plinth/chassis. The replacement simply needs to be a very similar arm (282mm effective length or so, as long as the base-pivot relationship is similar). I would think the long Audiocrafts (4000, 4400), the Audio-Technica 1501, the Micro Seiki MAX-282 and MA-505L could be made to work, and I bet the long Sony arms (PUA 286, 1600L), and the long Victor and Denon arms would also work. I have not tried it (not sure if I would want to - as a straight arm, it works really well). I cannot, offhand, think of any modern arms with similar length but I am sure someone could find one or two. That said, the arm on it is pretty darned good. I would think it would compete pretty well with the best of the arms mentioned above (which if I had to choose, I would say is likely to be the Max-282, based on my experience with the Max-237). |
I wondered why Downunder wanted to use price (i.e., "10K table") as a criterion for expectation of performance. I have lost faith in price as a factor in sound quality of tt's. There are just too many megabuck models with obvious design flaws. Most likely the P3, like the MkIII, will sound great but will not be loved by all devotees of belt- or idler-drive. The limitation of the P3 compared to almost all other top end vintage tt's is that one is pretty much stuck with the stock plinth and tonearm, unless one wants to do a major transplantation of the P3 chassis, which would negate the built-in suspension/isolation. I guess there is a way to add a second tonearm to the existing plinth, but that's about it. |
Unfortunately, not many people outside of Japan has one of these because they were domestic only, AFAIK. Still, for "only" about $3,500 USD (current going rates), they are much cheaper and easier to obtain than the SP-10MKIII. If I had over $4k to throw around, I'd buy one :) |
Nah, pulled out unfortunately
Due to the $AUS being in the toilet, what was a good deal 3 months ago, was just a bit risky at this time.
I am looking at buying some cheaper tables to play with locally as my 2nd/3rd tables.
Yamaha Px-3 and/or Micro Seiki DL-91L
Both these seem top be reasonable tables for not so much money. Not competing with any 10K tables thou I would guess :-) |
According to what is on the web, P3 had "10 kg.cm" of torque, compared to MkIII at 16 kg.cm. MkII has 6 kg.cm, according to my owner's manual. I wonder whether Downunder bought a P3. |
Lewm, thought I posted this just after your comment but seems I didn't push the "submit" button. The shoot-out is here. |
Raul, interesting to note that you even laugh en Espanol. We would be going, "ha, ha, ha!" |
Dear Downunder: If you have the opportunity to buy it my advise is that you do it fast while is available and before I do it ( ja, ja, ja. )
Competitive?, absolutely yes.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
You've probably seen the "shoot-out" (hate that term) that was done by a Japanese magazine in the 80s, wherein two reviewers listened to about a dozen of the top TTs of the day and ranked them according to certain qualities. (Someone will no doubt post the URL; I can't find it right now.) In that article, the P3 was tied with the EMT 930 (I think) for top rank. Those two were ranked well ahead of all others in most categories and came out on top in net score. Weaknesses of the article were that some other top of the line TTs, such as Technics SP10 MkIII and Denon DP100, were not included, and that the tonearms and cartridges seem to have been different for each TT. For example, the P3 has it's own integrated arm that was certainly not used with any of the other tables. But there is no doubt that the P3 and the later P3a represented Pioneer's all out efforts in TT design and build quality. |
Great table. I think it had more torque than almost anything out there. The only table with more torque, that I know of, is/was the Technics SP10 MkIII. |
