Mr larsen we like tons of products we dont sell.
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Yes EBM we have over 30 years of professional experience, what's yours?
Your quip seems to bemoan the fact that the OP is wrestling with this issue, it is not cut and dry for so many people, hence what seems obvious to you is not to the OP hence the question asked?
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
The amplfiers will drive them but they would not be a good match.
The A3 will show all the deficiencies of the Bel Canto's class D technlology. The Bel Canto's are powerful with good bass and great dynamics, they are howerver very dry and a bit mechanical sounding.
We did have a set in the shop for evaluation and that was our experience with them.
The Martin Logan's are a bit more shelved in the top end and do not have the resoloution of the Magicos.
However, you are also not mentioning the rest of your system and if your have a tube preamplifier or a tube based dac it is possible that the combo will work with the Bel Cantos.
If you perfer the Magico's then you should get them try them with your current setup but you must realize that when ever you change loudspeakers you are going to need to revoice the system.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Tgun, as we speculated you are running tubes and a softer sounding digital front end which adds a sense of body to the amps.
Personally we do not like Ncore or Hypex, the only Class D we have found to be decent is the Nuforce Ref 9Se V3, the Nuprime STA 9 for a cheap amp, and the Nuprime ST 10 for use with certain warmer sounding speakers.
We have tested $12k Ncore based amplifiers and they were clean, fast but lacking in the magic of a Class A/B amplifier.
The Bel Cantos are decent amplifiers but we think you would be much happier with the BHK amplifier.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
No Tgun, we don't like Bel Canto's Class D, don't like Hypex nor Ncore,
We have heard some Class D amplifiers that were decent, the fact that you owned a high end store 15 years ago doesn't mean anything, almost all of the modern amplifiers around today will run rings around amplifiers from that time period. How do we know that, used to work in Sound By Singer and Innovative Audio two of the largest High end Audio stores in that time period and opened up our own store right after.
In our tests the Bel Cantos were wonderfully powerful, had great bass and dynamics, they failed to be involving, and did not have the magic in the midrange that really good Class A and A/B amplifier produce.
If you notice from our first post with you we did say that matching with a tube preamp and a warmer dac might help compensate guess what you have those.
In our tests switching out amp for amp the Bel Canto was good but not magical.
Today we sell many amplifiers that do not run as hot as space heaters that are truly magical.
The Bel Canto's are great if you need the power, for the same money a 600 Watt Anthem STR power amplifier would probably run rings around it. The Anthem is a Class A/B is reasonable in size and weight and it doesn't run hot.
Just one example.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
Thanks EBM.
Did you notice from our first post we said that those amps with a tube preamp and a warmish digital front end that such a combo could sound good.
The later post from the OP showed exactly that combo was what he was using.
Kind of verifys that we really do know what sounds good doesnt it?
We have tested a lot of class D amps and they can sound good yet to hear one yet we would use in any of our reference setups and we have a few currently on display.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
Sorry Tgun
If you owed a store for any length of time you would know the answer.
If you want the A3 you would bring in a pair and try them out with your system.
Unless anyone here has exactly the same setup and your tastes the answer is of very little value.
Will the ref 600 drive them of course it will most class D amplifiers can push power easily no matter the load. |
Mark Larsen sorry to disagree but look at a few other reviews on this amp.
Another reviewer prefered an Anthem M1 which is an okay sounding amp at best
Nor did we recommend any amp in our previous posts we did say the Anthem STR was similarily priced and is 400 watts and that amp might sound better.
From the Absolute Sound review
Its mid- and low-bass response was not as vibrant and impactful as several of my reference power amplifiers. While not soft or overly fluffy in a tubey way, the REF600M did not produce the same amount of dynamic punch or bass slam as either the April Music Eximus S1 (used in bridged mode as dual mono amplifiers) or my freshly refurbished Pass Labs X150.3.
Gee a Coda .8 a 250 watt 12 watts Class A a krell 175xd or an Anthem Str 400 watt Class A/B want to see which amplifier would really make those A3 sound great all of these amplifiers are not that much more expensive.
The new Krell and Coda amps are stunning.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
Mark larsen we know many of these reviewers do you honestly think because someone writes for a magazine they know more or can magically hear better?
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Guess Testpilot also feels the same
To answer your direct question, yes the REF600 will drive the Magico A3, but I agree with Audio Troy's assessment regarding the dry sounding nature of the REF600 which may become more evident with the hyper detailed Magico.
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Tgun you are using a tube preamp and a dsd based dac your results are going to be different than others using these amps with different gear also Martin Logans are shelved in the extreme top end.
We are delighed you love your gear many people have different experiences.
From the same review
REF600M did not produce the same amount of dynamic punch or bass slam as my freshly refurbished Pass Labs X150.3.
Gee if the Pass x150 sounds as good in the same areas, but beats the Ref 600 in dynamic punch and slam, and costs nearly the same which is the better choice?
Unless you really dont have the space or need the extra power, what is the appeal again with these Class D amplifiers?
We will put a 250 watt Coda .8 amp vs any Class D amp.
We have tested many Class D amplifiers Hypex, Ncore, Ice, Pascal havent heard one yet that made us want to jump ship. Each one has some flaw.
There are many audiophiles who agree with us.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Marklarsen and Tugen5 please have your class D, rules party.
One thing was fascinating that in the very review we found prasing the amps the reviewer also found a whole bunch of areas where a conventional amplifier was far better sounding that was in terms of bass slam and punch.
Again, unless you need the size and light weight, and low heat generation of these types of amplifiers or great amounts of power per dollar, why wouldn’t you just use the tired and true amplifier design of a conventional class A/B amplifier which to most people still sounds the most musical?
It is not that the Ref 600 are so much less expensive they are still $5k a pair and that puts you close to some of the best sounding conventional Class A/B amplifers out there.
For edification we have tested Auralic Hypex amplifiers, Merrill Veritas, Nad M10, Devialet, Nuforce and Nuprime amplifiers, Mytek and a few others.
The only truly magical sounding Class D was the original Nuforce Ref 9 Se V3, the new Nuprime ST 10 is very nice but still sounds too much like an amplifier, the very inexpensive STA 9 from Nuprime sounds great for a $700 amplifer but we are willing to forgive what that amplifier doesn’t do because we are expecting different things from a $700 amplifier vs a much more expensive one.
We haven’t tested the lastest Nuprime reference amplifier but the word on the stree is that one does sound very good.
Most Class D lacks the magic in the midrange whcih draws you in to the performance, what you get is clean, clear power and generally good bass and dynamics.
The Pascal amp modules do tend to sound warm but still lack the articulation and presense of a good conventional Class A/B amplifier.
Go listen to a Coda, a Krell, a Naim, a Pass, and go see if you are still in the class D camp.
Here is the real question if it wasn’t for the light weight, compact size and low heat, and high power for low cost, would most of the guys who switch to Class D still be using them?
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Tigen, Sorry to disappoint, you but we are not trying to sell you anything!
First you state that you have your own opinions and then you throw out to the floor as it will with your questions to see what other people think of the pairing of the Magico A3 with the Bel Cantos.
Either you have your opinions and convictions, or you don’t.
To which we replied the only way you will know if the combo would sound good would be for YOU to try it for yourself, which is pretty sound advice.
Come on man if you owned a store for 15 years you would automatically know that the only way to reliablly predict the outcome of a pairing of a set of speakers and an amplifier is to try that combination and also know that once you have paired amp with speakers you might also need to change cables, or source components or both to create the sound you are looking for.
We told you that unless the other person has the exact same pairing of components and your taste the reply other than "sure it sounds good" is meaningless.
Also as noted the rave review on these amplifier basically stated that a pair of other amplifiers and an older Pass Labs amplifier outperformed this amplifier in certain areas we would guess than that bass control, and dynamics mean much less to you as the reviewer certainly prefered his other amplifiers in these areas.
Then we mentioned a few examples of non Class D amplifers that would give someone fantastic results that were not gigantic space heater amplifiers.
The T+A 2500R is a very compact 140 watt integrated and it runs cool and sound amazing. The Coda .8 runs warm and sounds amazing, even the Anthem STR runs pretty cool and sounds really good, no the Krell 175XD doesn't run that cool but does sound really, really good.
We then said unless it is size, power for dollar or lack of heat why would anyone choose such an amplifier?
As per your friend guess what is wasn’t us, we have not talked with anyone with a Calypso preamp nor do we generally call random audiogon people.
We might ask someone why thy were sellng a product if it is something we think is really good to understand their reasoning and experience considering we no longer sell Plinus and we don’t sell the Calypso preamp therefore why would we call this person?
Also we have had a tremendous amount of experience with Ncore, Hypex, Ice, and other Class D amplifiers.
Good luck Tigen and let us know just how magical the A3 sound with a set of Class D amplifiers.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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The coda have a huge soundstage depends on how you are feeding the amps preamp and dac affect soundstaging wr go bricasti m3 direct to coda sounds exceptional |
