Any WARM, MUSICAL speakers out there?

Speaker tone be it WARM, COLD, MUSICAL, DRY, SWEET, etc... I find has a lot more to do with the electronics driving the speaker than anything else. Especially the SOURCE. Sources have a HUGE impact on the tonal character of a system. Speakers ultimately are supposed to be accurate with a little distortion as possible. Tone is also effected by cable choices (AC cords, IC, and SC). Even room accoustics can seriously affect the tonal qualities of a speaker.

This being said, I have the Vienna Mahlers as a reference speakers. They are a great speaker IF you have the patience to use the right amp with them AND to set them up properly. The Mahlers are a speaker that have a very difficult bass to control. They also are a bitch to set up. When I got mine around 2 years ago, I damn near cried at how bad they initially sounded in my room. It was pretty depressing. However, with a lot of work and proper system matching, the Mahlers midrange are about as good as box speakers get. Their overall tonal balance is hard to beat. But I do warn you, if you buy the Mahlers, you are in for some serious work if you want to maximize their performance.

KF

The VR-4 HSE speakers and the Vandy 5's are VERY different speakers. VERY DIFFERENT. I would not even put them in the same sentence as they are that different. And they each mate very differently with amplifiers. You can drive the Vandersteen 5's with 20wpc or so tubes. You need a lot more power for the VR-4 speakers. The Vanderstein's require an amp that has a flat bass response (not necesarily STRONG and POWERFUL bass). The VR-4 amps require strong bass (amps with balls).

The difference in sound of these speakers is IMHO pretty substantial (I cannot drill this in enough). The VR-4 speakers really focus the presence of instruments well, but I think they loose a bit of speed in this process. These speakers also have SERIOUS bass. In the wrong room, the bass can be overpowering. Also, I do not think VR-4's image that well per se (they may be good imagers, but not GREAT imagers). They also have a pretty narrow sweet spot, and off axis I think they sound way too bass heavy. Their tweeter dispersion seems very precise and focused on the sweet spot. I have heard these speakers in a reference room with a reference system, and I decided to pass on buying them.

The Vandy 5's are a whole different animal. For one they cost about two times as much as the VR-4s (if you go with the 5A speakers). They have a very open soundstage. Their soundstage seems about as open as box speakers get. Off axis in general I think the 5's sound outstanding. They also image remarkably well. They can throw a soundstage as wide and deep as any box speaker I have heard under $20k or so. These speakers seem to be a lot faster than the VR-4's. Additionally the 5's bass is tuneable. The bass amps that drive the woofers have a 10 band graphic equilizer that can be adjusted to suit your particular room. This is a HUGE benefit. The Vandy 5 speakers are my favorite box speaker that I can remotely afford.

Be sure to demo each before you buy because they are very different speakers.

KF

Ok here is how it works on the Vandy 5's Stenho,

You are right about the crossover box between the amp and preamp. HOWEVER, that box is merely a crossover that starts the roll off at 100hz. This rolled off signal is then sent to the amplifier which in turn amplifies it and sends it to the Vandersteen 5's.

The Vandersteen 5's reconstitute the bass signal from the high level signal sent by the amp. Basically, if your amp's bass is rolled off naturally the Vanderstein's 5 bass will also be rolled off.

The Vandersteen 5's are NOT directly connected via low level input to the preamp for the bass. Theoretically, if the Vandersteens WERE connected via low level input to your PREAMP, your amps bass would NOT affect the speaker's bass. This is NOT the case though. Vandersteen 5 bass is derived through the reconstitution of the rolled off high level signal which is sent to the speaker by the amp. Thus, if your amp's bass sucks for whatever reason, the reconstituted signal will reflect these problems in SPADES.

This is not a new feature. Vanderstein thinks this is the best way to do a crossover AND integrate bass.

My friend has the original Vandy 5's.
I have heard them and the 5A's.

KF

Stenho, I stated that these speaker were very different because they seemed to be lumped in the: warm musical category. Your suggestion of the speakers is like asking someone if they want eggs or pizza for breakfast. Not saying how different these speakers are [in a recommendation] inadvertantly may leave a person to believe that the two are similiar (i.e. both WARM and MUSICAL). I have heard both extensively, and their similiarity ends at about the level of: they both play music and have relatively deep bass.

A local audio friend of mine has had the Vandy 5's for several years. I know one or two things about them from hearing his system and listening to them (and discussing them with my friend). The Vandy 5's bass amps are run by the high level output coming from the system's amplifier. If your system's amp is rolled off in the bass, the bass amps of the Vandys will roll off the bass as well. The type of amp you use feeding the Vandersteens really DOES affect the bass. They need an amp that stays flat down to 20hz, but it does not have to have a lot of amperage/power behind that bass. This is where the Vandy amps take off. There is a difference between flat bass and powerful bass. The Tenor amps have a flat but not-so-powerful bass (thus they can drive sensative 6-8 ohm speakers rather well).

KF