Another person going digital and full of questions

search bar above is your friend...

short answer, unless you are going to run roon, get an innous, auralic or lumin one box streamer/dac in your price range

@mahler123

i agree that the node will do the job very well but op wants to spend 5 grand... what do you want him to do with the other $4500? 😂😉

Anyway, I’m enjoying it all, though, I have to say, not yet very enlightened. So thanks again.

op - i have had some fun on this thread you started...but here are some (serious) key points that may help your quest for enlightenment on the subject

1. it all matters, from ethernet/wiring, cabling, noise management (digital signal, power supply and mechanical), and of course dac and streamer

2. but dacs matter most ...up to a certain level (call it well reputed ~$6-10k+ dacs, then they converge in sound) - below that level, dacs sound pretty different as all sorts of cost/quality tradeoffs are being made

3. in general up to that high level of dac where sound quality converges, i would say dac choice drives sound quality 75-80%, rest derives from streamer selection and the rest...

4. but... and here is the big but... once you are into that high, truly excellent level of dacs (msb, top chord, weiss, bricasti, totaldac and so on), in order to get the most out of these, let them fulfill their potential (call it getting your money’s worth out of what you paid for that superb dac), everything feeding it from upstream needs to be pristine.... streamer, ethernet, noise filtering, jitter control, connections, computing (roon core, that ilk)... and the high level of dacs, the underlying technology matters less (r2r vs bitstream), the makers have used whatever technology they have chosen to deliver the end result (great great sound), and then it is more about features, form factor, connections...

5.  one can get terrific sound at a lower level of cost than isolated computing to streamer to super dac... but as usual, in this hobby, just like in analog, speakers, amplification, you spend alot, work hard, make great efforts for that last 10-15-20%....

good luck

Why is it necessary to spend $20k on a DAC before one hears music that sounds like music?

it is not - musical dacs exist at very affordable levels... depends how stringent one is about defining in their own minds ’what sounds like music’... like everything else in this pursuit, superb execution to a very high standard gets expensive (see: turntables, cartridges, amplifiers, speakers...)

The ongoing failure of digital to produce a sound analogous to music is because of the fundamentally insoluble engineering problems of obtaining accurate clock timings and eliminating dither.

solutions exist

just somewhat costly to implement correctly

For some of us, converting analogue sound to digital and then back again is alchemy and thus unable to be effected perfectly. At the very least, surely it is unnecessary if we always start with analogue sound.

you don’’t seem to understand what happens in the front end of the industry -- how the music we play is recorded... that is where digitization starts - do you think modern lp’s contain music that is analog, never digitized?

How have some of the expensive DACS improved on cheaper ones (as most acknowledge)?

there are numerous posts and sources of info on what makes a good dac -

1) error free input reception/clocking - with the variety of data transfer configurations, each and their shortcomings must be anticipated and dealt with

2) clean d/a conversion including digital filtering (chose your method)

3) good analog power supply and signal delivery (think why does a really good analog linestage cost $$, do we have a $200 world class linestage? of course not...)

4) digital and analog noise management, electrical and mechanical

Why has it cost so much money?

see above

Are DAC problem issues truly insoluble?

not... like anything else, complete and high quality solutions are costly to implement

my 2 cents - others may of course differ in their opinions and held beliefs

well done well said @cat_doorman

i would only add that by steps 3-4, iterating there, one should look carefully that their networking and system noise management to get the most out of their streamer and dac upgrades in their digital system, certainly if one plays with standalone dacs in the >$3000 level