Another “How to choose an arm” question

Dear @mijostyn  : "  There are times when vinyl wins. " Rigth.

I don't know you but as time goes on I'm a little reluctant to use my time with all the protocolo need it to listen LPs against that " monkey " sliding the CD with out worring of nothin: just MUSIC and full great peace and happiness in mind.

R.

Dear @holmz  : No, it's not contrary what is happening is that you and me are at different step in the ladder way to enjoy MUSIC.

Your different threads/posts tells that with analog you are trying to go out of the " baby carry " when I'm already out of it years ago and now seated just enjoying MUSIC and posting in forums trying to help gentlemans that ask for. That's all. Nothing is contrary, you are in the fun learning ladder steps: good.

R.

Dear @mijostyn  :  "  I do compare digital to analog versions of various recordings by synchronizing the record to the digital then just switch back and forth by remote. "

Comparing analog to digital versions in reality for me is really easy, the only main issue is that SPL be evenly for both formats.

One of my last comparisons was:

" Diana Krall - When I Look in Your Eyes "

No contest here. CD version is way superior and I was surprised with because I was almost sure the LP been better than the CD. So I took in count that both recording versions were mastered by different gentlemans.

In this particular recording you can listen the differences for the better in the CD at the 2 minutes to listen both versions.

As many of us I own several recordings in both formats and usually in Original Motion Picture Soundtrack the CDs outperforms the LP versions even if mastered by the same guy.

In reality I'm not anal to take my time doing those comparisons. I'm  a way more interested to listen and enjoy my MUSIC sessions.

R.

@holmz : " fewer are interested in whether there are actual resonances. "

Not really and I can say that many of us are the other way around.

Maybe our first target ( at least mine. ) choosing a tonearm is to choose a well damped design and the ones with tonearm removable headshell uses this design characteristics to mate in better way their cartridges testing it with different headshells.

SAEC tonearms were a non-damped design and depending of the cartridges mounted in the arm those non-damped resonances always change as change with well damped tonearms but the resonances ( that we can’t avoid. ) comes with different characteristics, more benings damaging the less the cartridge signal.

If you go for measurements as your main choice target then your choice must be the Rega RB300 or the Moerch DP6 that measured way better than SAEC.

I told you that I owned the top SAEC designs that are very good looking tonearms but terrible performers, the today " new " tonearm in reality is and old design with the same bad characteristics. I'm not questioning that SAEC is what you like, fine with me as your measurements too.

R.

Dear @holmz : " how would I know if the upgrade is worthwhile? "

"" it offered me some substantially better sound than the SAEC WE317. ""

""" What would that do in how the sound is manifested? """

"""" first step is for me to figure out whether a new arm would make a notable difference. "

Those are your statements from your first post to the last that no one not even you can have a precise answer. Is useless asking again and again same " question ".

I think that almost all the posts here already gave you all what any one could need to decide about a change or not of tonearm.

You can have the answers you are looking for till you have the new tonearm in your room/system and make several tests against your tonearm/cartridge today combination. There is no other way, just common sense. Or decide not to change it. Is up to you.

You have not that kind of common sense due to your low knowledge level on that issue and the only way to learn is by your own: testing and testing, etc, etc. Even you posted about:

""""" It sounds like I should give up trying to understand it. """

Go for other cartridge, you are satisfied with your arm. LOMC cartridges always are a learning lesson, try it and you will learn.

R.

Dear @holmz  . The gentleman in the other thread was and is a true rookie on analog issues and an external tower/arm pod will be to complicated for him.

The suspended or not suspended TT designs matters nothing about.

But for all your posts including this " ask " for me already  tell that in this specific analog regards you are not very away of that gentleman.

Look any " audiophile " that's " happy " with a SAEC entry level tonearm and talking of sibilants where no one refered to and that own a tonearm with an internal wire coming from 1982 speaks alone for your knowledge levels on this specific analog regards. Additional to that seems to me that your system has not yet a high resolution with LPs playing.

Your last post makes no sense to me and you took the question for an almost " no one " information.

To each his own. As I told mijos is you who have to stay satisfied with what you change or what you buy. No one is perfect in audio or knows everything about audio and normally we learn from our frecuent mistakes and sometimes is the only way to learn, if you don't make mistakes your analog systems always will " lives " in the mediocrity/average like today. Rigth now your true enemy is no one but you for the knowledge level you have. All of us pass through the " ignorance " first steps in the ladder of learning and step by step we  all learn and that learn means that you have a really fun/emotional analog audio times in the near future and this is good for you: enjoy it.

It's enough for me here.

R.

Dear @mijostyn  : SAEC tonearms are in the high mass range but the real problems are that's an undamped design and the knife bearing .

We can think that knife tonearm bearing is almost frictionless and a dream for that job but it's not and it's not not because I say it but truly experts as Dr. Sao Win puts a warning against knife bearings with his cartridge designs ( I owned his cartridge LOMC. ) and in indirect way SME did it too. Remember the old 3012? well came with vertical knife bearing and fortunatelly when SME ( that knows everything you can imagine on tonearms/TTs. ) was designed the V they just disappeared that knife bearing for very good reasons between those reasons is that at microscopic levels the knife tend to rattle.

holmz likes the 317 so is up to him at the end is him who needs to be satisfied not you or me.

R.

Dear @mijostyn  : Yes, you are rigth but when you can't mount a second tonearm in the same TT then the arm pod is an alternative.

I can tell you that I had a long first hand experiences with external arm pods when I was using my Denon's in naked fashion and maybe I was not aware of a detectable kind of distortions with, but this is me.

Now, as we can always we have to take the orthodox road with TT/tonearm mount.

R.

@mijostyn , got it but the Reed could work for the second tonearm that needs an external arm pod.

R.

https://sotaturntables.com/services/updates-upgrades/

and the Eclipse upgrade that mijostyn posted.

mijostyn for what you posted you have very low knowledge level on the SAEC tonearm quality performance. Of course that if the 317 colorations is what the op  likes then is up to him.

R.

Dear @holmz : Look for no unipivot designs, no matters what. Even that you like stay away of knife bearing designs.  Read carefully the tonearm manufacturer site information, is very important. Look for well damped tonearms. Medium mass is fine. Reading reviews from TAS or STPH could help too.

Now, even that your cartridges or any cartridge can be well matched about the resonance frequency ideal range same cartridges in different tonearm sounds a little different. Each tonearms it self vibrates/resonates different and are damped in different way but any good choice that you decide will performs really good. Today there are only a few tonearms that you could say: this is a bad tonearm. There are many tonearm manufacturerers.

Each one of us tonearm opinions come from our first hand experiences through our room/system that never is near the one you own, so be very carefully here and if you have near tonearm retailers then go to listen it and the same is you have audio friends near your place and I hope you already definied very specific targets for your system that can match it according your MUSIC/sound priorities  You need this kind of reference and when listening to other systems or even in yours you need to know exactly what to look for in LP tracks to really know you are near your targets:

https://www.kuzma.si/tonearms