Annoying Sibilance Problem

Jaytea and Headsnappin are exactly right.

Axelwahl wrote:

A new recording by Mobile Fidelity... pressing by Classic?: Alison Kraus & Union Station "so long so wrong" side two 'It Doesn't Matter', and even worse 'Find My Way Back To My Heart' are close to unbearably sibilant in my system.

I've played THREE copies of this LP in my system. One was brought over by a friend. The other two were mailed to me by fellow A'goners. They were convinced the recording or the LP was flawed because of high frequency distortions ("unbearably sibilant") when played in their systems. Just like in Axelwahl's.

All three of these LP's played perfectly. This LP does have very extended and fairly complex high frequencies. Close miking combined with a reverberant recording space make tracing and reproducing those HF's a challenge, but with the right equipment and setup it can be done, with beautiful and lifelike sonics.

I have other LP's that contain even more difficult sibilants. One in particular is my acid test. Only 2 or 3 sytems that I've heard will play that LP cleanly, but that also can be done.

It can't be done easily or cheaply. It can't be done with a Grado, thanks to its bludgeon of a stylus. But there's nothing wrong with that Allison Kraus LP.

Silvergsx,

Switching your preamp to mono may be helping in two ways:

1. Many preamp mono switches act as HF rolloff filters, so HF problems simply become less audible.

2. Summing to mono may prevent distortions resulting from L and R information that's at the same (high) frequencies but every so slightly out of synch or phase with each other.

It is VERY difficult for an amplification chain to cleanly reproduce two (or more) similar or identical waveforms that should be marching along as individuals, so to speak, without "glomming" them together into a distorted mess. The higher the frequencies and the greater the amplitudes, the tougher it is for the system to keep all the separate waveforms separate. Blending to mono before amplification begins greatly simplifies the job (and the music, naturally).

Your Grado is unquestionably part of the problem, but your amplification from phono stage to power amps may (or may not) also be contributing. Best guidance IMO is to try a more resolving cartridge first, to see how far it gets you and whether or not you like the new direction.

Silvergsx,

You need to tell us about your phono stage and its gain and impedance characteristics before anyone could recommend a cartridge. Might be wise to start a new thread (or search old ones) for that. In general, as several have stated, a line contact or micro-ridge stylus will provide a quantum leap in HF clarity and reduction of inner groove distortion.

I agree with Marakanetz that a P5 may not be an upgrade vs. your present rig, though it will certainly be very different.

Ugabevo,

Those are interesting results. Your speculation that the least costly system played that LP most acceptably due to lower resolution may be correct, in a general sense.

Was the amplification in that system entirely or primarily solid state? Were the tweeters a soft dome type? Were the interconnects and speaker cables either very entry level and/or shielded? Was the TT driven by a rubber(y) belt?

Any of the above can contribute to the smothering of subtle harmonic information. They often don't so much distort HF harmonics as simply bury them, leaving a clean but often colorless presentation. Strong fundamentals but little individuation of instruments and voices. I could name names, but I still have a few friends left here. ;-)

A system that's good enough to pass most HF harmonics but isn't quite good enough to do so without distortion might easily sound worse. Frustrating hobby we got here...

Axel,

My #1 most challenging/torturous LP for reproducing clean high frequencies:

‘Les Plaisirs de la Renaissance’, Deller Consort, Harmonia Mundi, HMU 963

That Allison Kraus record is difficult because her closely miked voice and its echoes present waveforms at high frequencies that are very close together (in time). Many systems can't avoid mushing them together, which usually sounds horrible. The Deller LP is more difficult for several reasons:

1. Deller's voice is much stronger. Bigger amplitudes challenge the tracking ability of the cartridge, the ability of the phono and other amplification stages to avoid slewing distortion or overload, the ability of the power supplies to resist being modulated by the signal and the speed and non-distorting cababilities of the midrange and tweeter drivers.

2. Deller is doubled and/or harmonized by an alto recorder, an instrument whose rich and tight harmonic structure is also difficult to reproduce. When he and the recorder hit/hold the same note or harmonically related notes, keeping the two voices separate is a severe challenge.

3. Unlike Krauss, both Deller and the recorder actually know where the notes are. ;-) Pitch stability from the TT is super-critical.

4. The recording was made in a stone hall - nicely authentic but intensely echo-ey, with multiple and extended reverberant decays.

5. One of the most challenging tracks was placed on the inner grooves (on side 2), adding smaller modulations to the challenges.

Other Deller Consort recordings would probably present similar difficulties. Keeping all these strong, closely related high frequency waveforms clean and separate is a terrific challenge. I've have other Deller recordings on CD so I know it can can be done. The trick is to do it from an LP, with its richer and more complete harmonic structures.

As Jaytea described for himself, it also took me four years of work (and a lot of money) to be able to play this LP cleanly. It's one of the first I play to test any new component or tweak because it is so unforgiving, and so satisfying when all is right. :-)

Another tough challenge in a similar way is the 'La Boheme' on Decca/London with Renata Tebaldi. On any 'La Boheme' Mimi's first big solo comes near the end of side 1, where tight inner groove modulations make the problem we're discussing more challenging. The Decca recording was also made in a sonically rich acoustic (though not stone, thank goodness!), which brings echoes into play again. Tebaldi's voice is of course more powerful and pure of tone than any pop/jazz singer, which adds amplitude and the need for tonal accuracy to the challenge.

If you can get through side 1 cleanly (which took me 2-3 years) don't congratulate yourself yet. The big crowd scenes and multiple voices on side 2 are more difficult for some components. It's a never ending battle. :-)