Analog Preview?

Indeed Dougdeacon, me too. I came up with a theory (at that time) that the pre-echo was the sound of the band in their room, seperate from the recording room, leaking through and getting onto tape from vibration in the walls - before the mic's picked up the band playing in their room (I'd decided that mic's were very slow at responding).

Errr yeah, that was clever.

BUT my theory IS correct, OKAY?

Heh. Me too. I first heard it on the fold-up-into-a-suitcase stereo my parents gave me for my 13th birthday. Ah, that was a fine day.

1966. That thing got me through high school, and from the Beatles to Beethoven and Bach. It ruined every record it touched (who knew?) but it played those pre-echoes great! :)

Point taken Dougdeacon, I was simply responding to Elizabeth's post in which she said that "it does mean your system is very resolving".

My late 70's 80's system was very poor and it could be heard easily with that.

Cabbiendi says it's easy to hear it with headphones only.

I agree - but as Elizabeth noted and to which I disagree - the cart doesn't need to be spot-on at all - my system was extremely basic for many years and I could hear pre-echo easily.

Anyway - not important really, eh :)

Sprog, I agree that pre-echo can be heard even in many basic systems. It's also true, however, that on the same LP it will be more audible, clearer and earlier in a more resolving system.

A sterner test is the ability to hear post-echoes. This is rarer and it's often drowned out by decays and room echoes. When you hear that, your sytem gets promoted a notch! ;)

Since my intial post I upgraded my cartridge from a 2M blue to a benz glider (night and day!).

It seems that the glider has minimized the occurence of the pre-echo, but it still occurs on some records.

Cabbiendi, unfortunately I do not have any Bach piano recordings on DMM vinyl but I do have other recordings and I have not heard any pre-echo on these.

Dear Nick,
The pre-echo can not be eliminated. It is easy to listen when using headphones but by open speakers is indeed the sign of good resolution, despite system price.
If you like Bach solo piano pieces you may look into the used LP market, LP that have been mastered in DMM (direct metal mastering). Those have zero pre-echo. DMM are easy to ID as all of them have stickers. To my knowledge they were only done by Teldec.

Regards,

Thank you Dave for the complement. I guess my system is more resolving than I expected. And thanks Elizabeth for the more detailed explanation, I checked it and it is exactly one revolution of the record.

This said it remains anoying, especially when lsitening to classical music. I have great recording of Bach solo piano pieces and during certain silent moments you faintly here the coming notes. I suppose I will have to keep the volume a touch lower.

Interesting points that hearing is is the sign of a very good resolving system, as my experience is that pre-echo can be heard with a very basic system.

I used to listen late at night with headphones, at low volumes, and could hear it with many recordings. This was in the late 70's when I was still at school and my father would go nuts if he heard me listening to music late at night, so I would get around it using headphones and listening at extremely low volumes!

The turntable was a cheap 70's Garrard with a Shure M75-6s cartridge plugged into a cheap "Rank Audio" amp and with cheap headphones. I knew nothing about cartridge / turntable setup then, and the system was very basic - not "audiophile" at all.

It was easy to hear pre-echo with just that. Headphones and good ears are all you really need.

It's normal and called "pre-echo". Some folks think it is a sign of a good resolving system to hear this.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1176734157&openflup&1&4

Dave