After ruminating per our last exchange I decided to ask Louis at Ortofon for comment. I sent him a copy of my test report. He expressed alarm at the resonance result and asked if I was using an aftermarket head shell (yes a Jico) because in his experience the 2M cartridges are compatible w/SL1200 TTs. He stated that the measured resonance failure would result in miss tracking and audible distortion. So, I played through my Ortofon Test Record paying particular attention to the Tracking ability tracks and can hear no miss tracking. My conclusion parallels yours that the deficiency must be in the AnalogMagik test for this parameter.
Showing 20 responses by billstevenson
I read through the posts at WBF before I bought the software, but I don’t participate there, rather I was hoping to find someone to converse with here where I am more comfortable. Anyway, I am a new user, have used it so far on two TT, my VPI HW-40, and on my SL 1200 GAE. On the VPI, I have mounted a SoundSmith Hyperion at the moment, and I have spent perhaps 6-8 hours working on that combination so far. I intend to go back to it, as it is an iterative process where the adjustment of one parameter affects others and so you go back and forth trying to achieve the best balance of all the variables. For those who are not familiar with Analog Magic, each variable (i.e. VTF, Zenith, Antiskate, VTA etc.) is evaluated by measuring distortion. When an adjustment is made to lower the distortion of any of these variables, obviously it can affect others. Hence the need to go back and check and readjust and so forth. This is no different from what I have done for years using test records and an "O" scope, but it is orders of magnitude more advanced. I have learned several things so far. The improvement so far on my VPI/Hyperion cannot be overstated, it is profound. I have also been able to vindicate VPI’s claim that antiskate does nothing useful on their arm. On my Technics, I have tried setting up two cartridges: Ortofon 2M Black and VAS Nova. The 2M Black stylus is defective, not worn out, defective, I’ve owned it for years and did not know. A replacement LVB is on order. The VAS Nova set up ok, but failed the arm resonance test in the vertical plain, although it passed in the lateral. When there is a failure, be it the TT or the cartridge, as was reported in the referenced WBF thread, I don’t see that as a weakness of Analog Magic. If, for example, the TT can’t pass the speed test and it can’t be adjusted, there is a clear message. In my case as cited here with cartridges, I need to change cartridges or live with the distortion. Facts are facts. To say Analog Magic does not work with all TTs is true, it will not work with broken or defective ones. |
Hi Bob, Thanks for sharing your insight. It does not surprise me that Analog Magic is used by professionals. It is clearly a professional tool. Although the program itself is easy to use, getting optimal results in set up is time consuming and not guaranteed. There is skill involved here, which is why I was hoping to find someone to mentor me. Take Care, Bill |
FWIW, what on the surface should seem to be a very simple thing to understand and measure, wow and flutter, is anything but that. I have not yet had an opportunity to work on a belt drive TT. That day will come, but the two I have ready to hand now are both direct drive. So it is a given that speed is correct. I think we can agree that the wow and flutter measurement I am getting is what is on the test record. In addition to surface irregularities (minimal) there is also the eccentricity of the hole (minimal). Note: minimal is not zero. Both of my measured arms are pivoted, one 9" and one 10", presumably arm length has some impact we’ll call factor X. I am not sure what the practical implications of any of this are on the program. Logically it can be agreed that both the speed and the wow and flutter tests should be set aside. At least for DD turntables. I think that is useful. |
I am familiar with Wally tools, have used them, subscribe to JR's blog and have a friend who has loaned me his full set of tools. The two approaches are fully compatible and in fact if you can first set up your TT with Wally tools, then use AnalogMagik(the correct spelling of the program - I got it wrong) to fine tune you will get the result more easily methinks. As I gain more experience and confidence with the program I am coming to the conclusion that the key parameters are azimuth and zenith. It is here where the magic (or MagiK) occurs. Of course there is more to it than that. For example, Wally tools did not disclose limitations in two of my cartridges. I am also learning that VTA is not that big of a deal really, meaning it can be way off without adding much distortion. This is the kind of thing that AnalogMagik can show. Bill |
Oh I understand now. In trying to setup my SL1200GAE first with the 2M Black, the AnalogMagik software revealed that the cartridge is defective. Wally tools did not uncover that fact. Similarly when I setup the same TT with the VAS Nova stereo cartridge AnalogMagic disclosed a problem with arm resonance in the vertical plane, again Wally tools did not. |
AnalogMagik is a distortion analysis program. For example, you want to measure the amount of IM distortion in both the left and right channels at the current setting, then you want to see if changing the current setting or position can improve the numbers. If you discover that no matter what settings you make does not result in a change in the IM distortion then you know something is wrong. You check a different cartridge and observe that changing the position results in changes in distortion, so you know the program is working. So you check a third cartridge and so on to confirm what is happening. All this takes time of course. Now you start to understand why I am seeking help by starting this thread. And believe me, having you guys to talk about it, the back and forth is extremely helpful. Thank you. |
You ask a fair question, what am I hearing? How do I characterize the sound of distortion? Or more specifically, when distortion is reduced, what is the result? I am not good at describing sound. My records sound clearer, more open. An analogy might be drawn with photography. It is like the difference between a well depicted image and one that is a little bit blurred. I am still hearing that it is a Steinway backing Sarah Vaughan, but both are easier to hear. Does that make sense? The difference is not subtle I can tell you that. |
Lewm, Now you know of two and I can tell you from having used both, that for correcting zenith AnalogMagik is far easier to use. The other parameter that by measurement contributes significantly is azimuth. These two together, azimuth and zenith, contribute more distortion, and in consequence offer the greatest opportunity for improvement of all of the variables. |
I agree with what Mac wrote above, and want to answer lewm's question as accurately as possible. This discussion and the questions back and forth have been immensely helpful to me. My new LVB stylus arrived yesterday and seems to work just fine. I am going to try to put a few more hours on it today and then tomorrow I will go through the Analogmagik procedure and take copious notes as I go and will document the results here. Hopefully that will give anyone interested better insight into the program warts and all. Here is a link to the website with the tutorials that I will follow: https://www.analogmagik.com/copy-of-setup-tutorials-instructions |
Here is the test summary. Date of setup: July 26, 2025 Turntable: Technics SL1200GAE Cartridge: Ortofon 2M Black LVB AnalogMagik V.2 Initial Setup was accomplished using mechanical & visual aids, i.e. Feickert protractor, Ortofon Stylus for gauge etc. 1. Speed. 33.3 (per discussion in the thread this was only used to verify that the program & hardware were working and adjusted properly. It is agreed that this is not a valid test for the turntable.) 2. VTF. I decided to use the 1.6 gram set point specified by Ortofon because there was no improvement in distortion levels when it was varied. 3. Antiskate. Here again the setting provided by Technics worked as well as any so after fiddling with it, I decided to accept the factory adjustment. 4. Azimuth L to R. 0.03% difference (note my VTA adjuster is frozen but visually it looks OK) 5. Zenith Angle Error. 1.01% 6. Channel Balance. 0.01 db 7. Vibration. Negligible. 8. Resonance. Failed. >20db in both lateral and vertical planes. This surprises me because in theory this bumble bee shouldn’t fly. In fact this turntable has never sounded this good. So much for theory. In closing I want to thank all of you for your questions and comments. This dialog has been tremendously helpful to me as I have learned how to work with AnalogMagik. If any of you are ever in South Florida and you want to bring along your turntable I would be delighted to meet you and setup your turntable using it. |
The numbers I provided are the IM distortion values. I did not record the db difference values, but will go back and do so later today and post them. I have a PT appointment this morning, recovering from knee replacement surgery, so I can't do it right now and it is not trivial to set up the test for me. In the meantime please look at Tutorial #9 as I believe it will end your misunderstanding. |
My VPI HW 40 w/Hyperion passed the test. I was laughing to myself thinking about this last night. First, no wonder my Technics sounds the best it has ever done. It has a brand new LVB installed, which is far better than the regular Black that it replaced which was also defective in any event. Also, like you, I wonder now how important the resonance test is. Or put another way, what are the practical ramifications of this failure? I thought it might be interesting to ask Ortofon for comment. I have been interested in their new tonearm anyway and wonder if replacing the stock Technics tonearm would offer an appreciable improvement on the GAE. In theory it should if the effective mass is low enough to render the resonance frequency of the combination using an LVB is in the 8-12 db range in both planes. |
I did two things. First I played band 2 and recorded the db difference without changing anything. 22.56 db (r) and 23.38 db (l). Second, per the recommendation of Louis of Ortofon, USA, I changed from the Jico head shell that I have been using for years for all my cartridges, and substituted the OEM head shell. Two points of interest to me were: 1) the OEM head shell weighs 8 grams, the Jico weighs 12 grams and 2) the OEM head shell does have zenith adjustment, which I mistakenly thought it lacked. Anyway here in abbreviated form (skipping parameters that are unchanged from my previous report) is the new data: 4. Azimuth L/R + VTA 25.42 db (r) 23.12 db (l) ; 6.6% (l) 5.1% (r) (note much higher than previous numbers) 5. Channel Balanace. 0.71 db 6. Vibration test is meaningless 7. Resonance. Lateral Peak. 8.583 Hz, Vertical Peak 8.577 HZ I also ran the track ability tests on the Ortofon Test Record. So with all that done and the numbers changed I can't say that I hear any difference. I am getting more comfortable with AnalogMagik. It does seem that the resonance test works, but failing it does not necessarily mean that the sky is falling. |
I wanted to let you know that I followed your coaching to the letter and after several more hours was able to substantially improve the results. As you predicted, however, the low numbers I originally reported seem unrealistic. Not sure what happened there. In any event thank you ever so much for your help. |