Thanks islandmandan. Yes it is an awesome sounding cartridge. I am about to compare it to my Ortofon MC Anna this evening. So much fun! |
Isalandmandan:
the other poster is trying to hijack my thread. He has some sick fascination with my posts and follows me and always tries to hijack my threads. His questions are not sincere, they are a ploy to divert the intentions of my posts. I’ve lodged a complaint against him with Audiogon. Just an FYI. |
I now have about 45 hours on the 103.3 and it has opened up quite a bit. One of the main differences I hear between the 103.3 and the stock 103r are primarily in the high frequencies with the 103.3 playing far freer and possessing a much more open top end. It actually makes my stock 103r sound muted or overly damped. The other big difference is in the area of intelligibility. The 103.3 sales through complex passages of music whereas the 103r can sound confused, especially if the complex riff contains a good deal of high frequency content such as flute.
I did compare it to my MC Anna. Well, even I was shocked at the result. As good as the 103.3 is, $9K does buy you something and in this case the Anna serves up a plethora of information and spatial cueing that the 103.3 simply can not duplicate (nor would I expect it to do so). I did note that where the 103r was sompletely missing the spatial cues the Anna so easily brought forth the 103.3 DID hint at them. The 103.3 does give you a small taste of that information. I am assuming this is due to the micro-ridge stylus vs the old style conical stylus of the 103r.
I still use my 103r for my less than pristine albums as it plays them well do to the stylus not being able to go as deep into the groove.
The London on jazz is just simply breathtaking. One of my female acquaintances asked me just last evening what makes the London sound so real :)
I was going to run 3 arms across my two tables as I was about have the Kuzma Air Line installed on my SP10Mk3 along with the 4 Point. Due to my being spoiled by the absolute supreme usablity of the arm on my SL-1200 GAE I changeed my mind on the Air Line. I want to be able to change headshells, VTA, VTF just as easily as I can with the GAE. I found and purchased a mint Technics EPA 100 mk2, so I will see how that goes. If that works out I will be happy with my SP10 MK3 and the two arms.
|
Pani:
You are most welcome. I would say yes to your question. One of my buddies loaned me his Kiseki Purple Heart for a coulpe of weeks and I liked it very much. It is a more refined device than a stock 103/103r but I believe I would prefer my 103.3 over the Kiseki. Not taking anything away from the beautiful sounding Kiseki, its just that the 103.3 maintains all the verve and the fun factor the 103 is known for while retrieving more information (than the stock 103r) and top end air. It is a far more refined beast than a stock 103r.
I am using this with my SPL Phonos. One of the reasons I love that phono stage so much is well, it sounds incredible and it has front controls. So I just flip a switch and set it to 330pf/10k ohms and my London Ref is playing like a live jazz set is in my listening room :)
I use my AMR PH77 exclusively for my MC Anna. |
invictus005:
Have you purchased the 103.3?
The CTO (Itani-San) of Technics liked it so much on the new SL-1000R playback system that he ordered a 103.3 for himself.
Its much much better than mid-fi.
I am not blowing anything out proportion, I own it. I own a London Ref and a MC Anna along with a stock 103r and a R2R with safety masters. I know what hi-end sounds like. I also know what middle of the road sounds like, the 103.3 is definately NOT middle of the road.
I am qualified to give my opionion.
|
invictus005:
I don't doubt that the OC9/II is a decent sounding cartridge but because I have never heard it in a system, let alone in my own system I have no opinion. I did hear and loved the ART 1000. Not a fan of the
AT33PTG/II which I have auditioned. |
Pani:
Obviously at that price point you have a great number of options. Chris Thornton of Artisan Fidelity has told me that the Dynavector 17D3 Karat is a great sounding cartridge at a price point lower than what you mentioned. I may pick one up to for fun as I obviously trust his ears. He built my SP10 Mk3 and I have been to his place many times, so I know the quality of sound to which he is accustomed. |
For those of you who wanted to know how good the 103.3 is, I hope my first hand review (you know, from someone who has actually broken it in and listened to the item) was beneficial. It is a wonderful product and they do much more than just cantilever/tip/body change. They are the ONLY firm to correct the SRA for the more modern diamond installed.
If you try this wonderful cartridge I think you will be very very pleased indeed. I can answer direct questions for people really interested in the cartridge, other than that I'm dropping off.
Happy listening.
|
Pani:
Obviously YMMV, but I auditioned (all at the same time) the ARC Ref 3, Sim Audio 610P or 810P (don’t recall exactly which Sim unit it was, I know it costs about $8K), the Pass Labs XP25. There were a few other lesser priced units I also auditioned.
I probably liked the Pass the least as I found it thin sounding but airy and ethereal. It just had no substantative presence with the music. I also noted that it seemed to pick up more ticks and pops than the others. I think this can be a sign of high negative feedback BUT not necessarily. Nothing wrong with feedback, I am just saying I heard more ticks and pops on the same vinyl with the Pass.
I did not care for the ARC, I found it overly (artificially) warm and soft sounding. The music also had a quality of sounding like it was not riding on a firm foundation. I also found the prat to be wanting to my ears. I could not get an identifiable rhythmic flow out of the phonostage.
I did like some of the things the Sim Audio did, specifically it’s resolution, quietness and relative dynamism. I thought the prat again, was not quite where I would want it be, my foot just did not tap.
The SPL Phonos took the best of all of the above and took it to another level. The prat was awesome as well the dynamics. With my London it is nearly unbelievable. I would not use it with a super low gain cartridge unless you had a step-up as it can present some noise if you really have to turn the volume up super loud (it is not a problem with my 103r/103.3 and even played very very well with my MC Anna which has an output of only .2mv). Not sure if some of the noise I hear when the volume is high (read too high for comfort) is due to my area in the city. The iPhono 2 is quiet like a tomb as is the PH77. This unit runs a proprietary 120v rail system and it sounds very alive. This is studio gear so the designer frills aren’t there like a good deal of the audiophile stuff, just outstanding perfomance. It really is exceptional. Actually shocked me as I had never heard of it before I went into my buddies audio shop, but I found that I kept going back to the unit.
The PH77 is simply better but the Phonos at this point is the second best phono stage I have spent an appreciable amount of time enjoying. It is certainly not embarrassed by the PH77. I could easily imagine that on some types of music I may prefer the Phonos to the PH77 much as I prefer my London on jazz over my other cartridges.
These are just my ears opinions, as I stated, YMMV.
Thinking of trying a Tsar DST to compare to the London :)
Hope this helps. |
|
Pani:
Not a problem. I play my .25mv rated 103's and they sound absolutely wonderful with black backgrounds at a very nice volume level, so a .5mv cart will be super quiet and smooth sailing. At 57dB of gain you are outputting .354 volts which is plenty. You can run it at 67 dB but I would suggest that is much more gain than you need. More than a few people, for whatever reason, use excessive gain on their phono stages and it always sounds bad to my ears. Sometimes less really is more. It probably has to do with how these items are marketed to people. |
Pani:
Yes I do play both 103's at 57dB. |
Invictus005:
What is the input voltage for my amplifiers input stage that will produce full output? Surely you know this as you purport to know how my system sounds. A system that btw you’ve never heard.
|
Invictus005:
Do you have a SPL Phonos? Do you have it connected to a 103r or 103.3?
Have you you ever heard this combination with an amplifier of X gain?
What gain universally causes cartridges capable of an output of ~0.25mv to sound great? Hint: this is rhetorical.
|
Invictus005:
Then don't do it. I think most people on this forum undertstand "YMMV". If it doesn't work in their system, I'm sure they will try another setting.
BTW, I didn't recommend anyone copy what I do in my system, I was asked how I run my Phonos and I gave an answer. I suggested that 67dB may be to high for the cartridge under discussion and it certainly is in my system.
What's a "good" phonostage? What do you use? |
Pani:
Case in point, most people just go by what they read and set the gain on the phonostage far higher than it needs to be. |
Invictus005:
Forgive my last queries, I really didn’t intend on you presenting me with an answer. I simply don’t care. |
Invictus005:
oh, yeah? Smh where do you people come from? |
Invictus005:
I think you do care or you wouldn't be trolling a thread I started. You would go and stand on your own, with your own thread. I promise if you start your own thread you will not see any comments from me :) |
Invictus005:
Ok, you win. BURN (still laughing) thanks for the comedy before the long drive home. |
Invictus005:
So Ypsilon, Thrax Vitus, FM Acoustics???
You hear that Michael Fremer, STOP and DESIST immediately from reviewing new phonostages that are not from the approved list of Invictus005. What Mike? Some of them sound awesome you say? Doesn’t matter, they are not from the "approved" list.
Thanks for making me laugh. Really? |
Enginedr1960:
Well written, I have found that on some systems 60dB seems like it should work but that in fact 66dB is required. Why? Not sure, perhaps the stated gain of the phono is off, perhaps the cartridge is not as strong as the spec sheet states. Gain structure throughout ones system does play a huge roll in the results one receives.
Obviously if I set my phono gain to say 40dB (I'm being extreme to illustrate a point) with a 0.3mv cartridge, no amount of gain in the preamp is going to negate the anemic signal from the phonostage, garbage in, garbage out.
Either way, as you stated it is system dependent and your ears are the most important measuring tool, so to speak. I currently run a active / passive pre (Wyred4 Sound STP SE) and I never have to go into the active gain range of the circuit, yet the dynamics can startle, if the music is dynamic. I have a professional recording engineer coming over this afternoon to bring some safety master tapes because he likes my system and wanted to use it to hear some of his work. |
Pani:
Unfortunately I do not. I will say that in my discussions with Francois of Ana Mighty Sound, I have found him to be a connoisseur of good sound. That guy knows what he is doing and the equipment he deals with is TOP NOTCH (Neumann DST's, Tsar, EMT, Thrax, etc.), so I would venture that if he is representing it, you're probably safe.
Sometimes you just have to take a chance :) I did just that when I ordered an AT ART 1000 cartridge yesterday LOL, hope I love it :)
I would be super interested if you decide to move forward with the Le Phono. |
Pani:
It’s +/-0.5db and it’s a current amplifier which means it will auto load the cartridge. Measurements seldom tell the whole story, which supports my OTL amplifiers sounding better than any and all solid state amplifiers I have ever compared them to regardless of price.
My OTL’s do not measure as good as some of these solid state amplifiers, but they will flat smoke them where it matters, the sound.
Dont get me wrong, measurements are important, but in Audio, they rarely tell the whole story. Fact is we have yet to quantify “good/great sound”.
If Françòis is representing it, my bet is that it sounds exceptional. |
Pani;
Actually hearing something is the ONLY way to judge it, anything else is just speculation.
I look forward to reading your thoughts :)
My 103.3 has gotten steadily better and is sounding more like the ART 1000 than not. There are differences but I’ll write that up in a dedicated thread comparing the AT ART 1000, London Ref and the 103.3 once I’ve compiled enough listening time and notes. |
Pani:
They probably should place that on the site. Either way, I figured it was probably over a B.W. outside of 20-20khz. This why I stated that listening is the ultimate arbiter. Thanks for getting the exact freq range information.
|
solypsa:
You are so very correct. |
Just a quick follow up on this cartridge. I had a chance to listen to the Ana Mighty Sound 103.3 on a replinth’d Technics SP10 R with a Schroeder CB-L arm. I was shocked, Chris of Artisan Fidelity was shocked. I even wrote François to tell him I found the cartridge to be far better than I initially thought. Evidently that combination of arm and cart is something that François has been aware of for some time,
The superiority of the Schroeder arm (plus the higher effective mass) propelled the cartridge far beyond how it performed on the lower eff. mass of the GAE ‘s stock arm.
I’m not often surprised in hi-end Audio, but I admit it, that surprised me. I’m sure the replinth’d SP10 R added to the overall result, but I know the vast majority of what I heard came from using an arm more in line with the cartridges lower compliance suspension.
It does play very very well with the GAE but with a more formidable arm, it starts to make one rethink some of these pricier cartridges. |
