An Extraordinary Find

Fiddler, yes, Dodgealum is correct. The Reference is $24K. While this seems like an act of folly, I personally know that in building the cost no object, "how good can we build a speaker?" Reference, a lot was learned. Much of which has flowed (not trickled) down into the Monitor and Studio 7, with no cost penalty to them. So, after it was all said, and done, I feel the exercise has provided truly meaningful benefits to all potential purchasers.

At this time, I do not own a current Fried production model. Dr. Raines is working on that, and really is steering me towards the Reference. My biggest worry is the interface of such a speaker with my 15' X 13' listening room. Though, one could argue that the Studio 7 is not much different in terms of size...

Dodealum, it's difficult to say what my actual role in Fried is. I am an investor, that much is certain. I put up a significant sum of money for me (probably not for most) to become a part of the family. Not for profit, as I don't ever see this being something I make money on, or ever would be able to consider leaving my career as a software engineer for. No, it was an homage to a man I love and more importantly, respect, Bud Fried. An opportunity to make sure the incredible legacy of the man would never be forgotten after he was no longer with us. I don't have a title, yet when I stated that I was a "nothing player" in the company, Dr Raines vehemently disagreed. He put forth some sort of honorary title, which I am embarrassed to say I now have forgotten.

I'll use Damone's description, "Assistant to the assistant manager at the movie theater", but in truth, I seem to take the role of more or less the liason between us crazy audiophiles on the net and the company. My sensibilities are audiophile, not corporate driven. I am an audiophile, I know how we think, act, feel, etc. because that is who I am. I could never be any other way. We get into a lot of disagreement, most of which because I put forth demands of what I see as audiophile perspectives, and I think that is healthy. Hopefully, in the end, it is all mutually beneficial to the audiophile, the company, the industry, and the hobby. I think Bud was the same way, always prodding, challenging, complaining, striving to move forward. As controversial, opinionated, direct, abrupt, and confrontational as I am, Bud was even more. That's the way he lived his life, that's the way I live mine. We are both of the Philadelphia stock. Hopefully, the rest of the world does not overlook that our aim is to provide happiness ever after for the true music lover. That's really all I think either of us ever strived for.

While I certainly hope people buy the speakers, as it is probably one of the surest ways that Bud's contributions to this hobby are kept alive, I recommend, and even use, a lot of loudspeakers. I have tremendous respect for Bobby Palkovic and his Merlins and will own a pair one day. I own and love Coincidents. I love the sound of Lowthers, and am building a pair. I have heard countless other loudspeakers that I believe would fit nicely into an audiophile's life.

You are certainly not the only one who utters much surprise at the depth of the Frieds. It takes a large cabinet to get the lowest frequencies of music produced by a TL - or sealed or ported speaker for that matter. We're not here to cut corners. When someone buys a Fried, they better get real TL bass. Even more important, as I confirmed with Bud after my own listening experiences, is the TL midrange. THAT will be a surprise to many. Despite this, the cabinets are maybe 6" shorter than the ones Drubin mentioned above, while possessing MORE bass. Thank the Reference, and what we have learned for that. In addition, it gives the speaker a more solid, relaxed, visually appearing look.

Feel free to tell us all about where you wish to go, Dodgealum. This isn't only a thread where I speak, it's a community affair. I certainly don't have all the answers, only opinions. Opinions that some may agree with, and some will find ridiculous.

I will ask that following along with my opinions, priorities, and perspectives, that you do a bit more than tell us about your gear. Tell us about you, which I consider the most important component. What you are really looking for, what you like, what you don't like, what your sonic priorities are, how loud you listen, what kind of music you like, and what your room is like. It could be that Frieds are not the best speaker for you, in which case, perhaps Vandersteens are, or Merlins, or Quads, or Coincidents, or Magnepans, or Sonus Fabers, or... - in which case, I would say so.

The current Frieds are the yang to the current Quads and the Vandersteen 2s and 3s. Whereas they are more dark and voluptuous, the Frieds are open, spacious, engaging, and forward. As in all systems, they should be considered in terms of how they will interact with the system. They will be influenced by the sound of room and the electronics to a very fair degree.

What I will now say will fly in the face of most of the conventional wisdom of audio, but I can only be honest in what I hear, feel, and experience. If one found them too bright, I would recommend solid state amplification, as I find it more rich, warm, and luxurious for the most part. It will also provide that midbass blump that a lot of people crave. Rowland, Levinson, Parsound Halos would all probably give this kind of sound, though as you stated above, the speakers don't need anywhere near the kind of power most of the products of those companies produce. If one wants a sunny and shining sound, tubes are a great choice. Again, the AtmaSpheres absolutely mate like hand and glove to them, but there are other fine choices, transformer coupled or otherwise.

Hopefully, others will offer up their own perspective as well!

Hmmm...

If the speakers Joperfi heard at this year's CES event, they are the production ones. Again, there is continuous improvement, but I believe it has been quite subtle since January. I am sorry that you didn't like the sonics. As you stated, I wasn't there so I have no idea what things sounded like, but I did get a lot of positive feedback. If I may ask, what about the sound was not to your liking? My audiophile mantra is "that's why they make vanilla AND chocolate", and it could be that we just aren't your flavor. In the end, of course, you must go in the direction of your own personal tastes.

Those shown at CES 2004 were a different ball of wax entirely. Drubin heard those, and seems to have potentially liked the sound. Those were taller, with different veneer/finish, used different drivers, crossovers, line damping, etc. I felt they lacked wallop, and indeed testing revealed a midbass dip that was corrected via crossover and line damping. The Vifa drivers further added punch.

I agree that Fried should be at HE2005, but alas, we as a company are not. In my opinion, the NYC HE show is where it's at, as a lot of East Coast audiophiles, including myself attend each year. For those who want this to happen, I suggest e - mails to Dr. Raines, asking Fried be there in 2006.

Joperfi, I will be in NYC next week, on Friday and Saturday. While I attended with two Audiogoners last year, a very old friend of mine asked me to take her this year to see what this whole hobby is about. She just moved into a new townhome, and because of my longtime addiction to this audiophile disease, was interested in checking out potential things for her down the road. Honestly, I told her that the "real world", which she is a part of should stay away from this stuff like the plague. It's really expensive, especially in the eyes of those who are not addicted. The "run, do not walk" statement in the "Advice For a Newbie" was what I provided. There are plenty of good enough sounding $399 systems at Tweeter that normal people should go for. Alas, she is intent on getting together for the show...

I would be more than honored to meet any of the Audiogon members at the show. Believe me, I'm nothing special, just a regular old Joe.

And, Joperfi, I have been hoping that we can arrange something in the Philly area to have people give the speakers a listen. But, more importantly, just get together and say, "Hello!"

I first must say that I am a part of Fried...

Dodgealum, thank you for this thread! Where did you hear the speakers, if I may ask?

I have had differing experiences with the imaging, like you. I believe that the room first, and ancillary components second play a huge role in the way they will image. I have heard them not image very well, and I have heard them image in spectacular fashion. In the end, I will say that if you do wind up owning a pair, and get the other things right, you will find that they seem to image as least as well as any large floorstander has any right to.

Still, I believe a truncated pyramid is the king of imaging. No getting around physics there.

TRUE Transmission Line bass, implemented well, is surely something to behold. Deep, powerful, tuneful. Not much else to say beyond that it sounds real, and other alignments do not compare in terms of absolutes.

I have also heard the midbass sound a bit cooler than I personally prefer, but I have again found it room and system dependent. I also wonder if the superlative deep bass response that we are not usually used to makes the midbass seem not as warm as it actually is.

Not much to add to your statements on the midrange and treble, except to say that despite their musicality, the amount of detail and refinement is something that I am quite proud of. It sometimes takes a while to realize it, as I think we often get lost in the music as opposed to the tic tac toe analysis with a speaker like this.

As you mentioned, 50 watts more than powered them. Despite the specs, these are incredibly easy speakers to drive. Even at 4 ohms, my Atma Sphere M60 OTLs absolutely love them, more than any other speaker in fact. The quality versus quantity (parts count) of the first order resistive series crossover makes this a speaker that does not conform to a lot of the patterns we are used to. Please note that Frieds were Ralph Karstens long time speakers in the past, and that will explain a lot. I'm part of the low power SET and OTL tube crowd myself (Bud LOVED that - I say sarcastically).

I will pass along your comments, along with my own opinions to the company. As you mentioned, we are a company who believes in continuous improvement. Always seeking to extract the absolute maximum we can out of the product. Constantly making them better. The last point I want to make is that they were only $4995 in the recent past, and though I am happy to hear you feel them to be a good bargain at $6495, my goal is for us to always to offer the best product we can at the lowest price. I would be more comfortable at $5000, but I also cede (though kicking and screaming) to some of the realities of economics. My long term hope is twofold - to forever honor the legacy of Bud Fried and to be part of an American company that proves that we can more than compete with the best of the rest of the world.

Again, thank you very much!
Joe Trelli

Thanks for your comments, Joe. I'm going to push for a Philadelphia get together to hear the Frieds.

I'll be there in NYC Friday and Saturday, perhaps we'll run into each other...

I can empathize with what you are looking for, Dodgealum.

I think you also made the very wise proviso that you are used to the Harbeths, and that often seems to color our perceptions of listening to new equipment. As much as I could be called out on the carpet regarding such, I have been as guilty of this as the next guy through the course of my audio journey. Though, I do try to keep the most open of minds. For that, I rely on trying to listen to as much gear as possible, to get my bearings the best that I can.

The Frieds are not built to have the midbass boost so common today. Whether that will appeal to the broad audience remains to be seen, but after hearing a lot of speakers in the past few years, I know that a significant number of people react positively to a speaker that has this characteristic. I'm not going to say much about it, beyond that people should buy what sounds good to them, and think about measurements or being a purist second.

I think you might want to try the Frieds in a more conventional sounding, warmer room. That would probably give you back at least some of what you were missing in the midbass. Again, a more conventional solid state amplifier such as Rowland, Levinson, Parasound, Aragon, etc. will produce that lushness you seem to be craving, at least in my opinon. I believe tubes will sound sunny, shiny, and open. I must be honest and say that the Frieds are meant to jump up and sing, to be musical, fast, dynamic, and, hopefully, real. They do not produce the plodding bass that you did not want, and are not "pipe and slippers" speakers as I find the Quads and the Vandy 2s and 3s (I don't have enough experience with the 5s to really comment on them intelligently). The Studio 7s are going to be lively. Whether or not that is your cup of tea only you can answer, but I think an additional audition, in a different locale, with different equipment might just paint you a different picture.

In my opinion, there's good news and bad news for you, Dodealum...

The bad news is, as you indicated, in Dr. Raines most difficult room, you have yet to really hear the speakers. I think the hardness of the contruction materials contributes to the colder tonal balance. And, as you stated, no back walls do not produce the kind of bass the speakers produce in more conventional surroundings.

The good news is, I believe, if you liked them there, you should REALLY like them in a different room. While I have not had a pair of Studio 7s in my room, we did have a prototype in both his and my rooms, and I had to call him within 15 minutes of firing everything up just to tell him that he had NEVER heard what these babies really sounded like. With my speakers 5' from the back walls, and about 2.5 from the side walls, the low frequencies gave me a true taste of why you would want to implement a real TL bass alignment. I mean slammin bass, where I had been a bit disappointed previously. The overall tonal balance also shifted to be clearly warmer and easier to listen to.

The pair that you heard addressed my complaints to a nice degree, but I still think they would sound appreciably better in my room. Hopefully, you will get to give them a try in Manhattan, though I have no idea what that room and ancillaries are. Please let us know your impressions if that does happen.

Amplification in my system was a pair of AtmaSphere M60 MKIIs, fed directly by a Granite Audio 657 CD player. Cabling was HomeGrown Audio Silver Lace interconnects and Vampire STIII OCC copper speaker cables.

Tom, good to hear from you once again! Yes, I am running the OTLs, but now have a super modified pair of M60 MKIII, with 12SX7 input tubes, massively upgraded power supply, teflon film and foil caps, all the goodies. The improvement in sound is definitely not subtle. The sound is much more relaxed and liquid, along with having increased bass slam, warmth, refinement, detail, lower distortion, etc. It's about as good an amp that Ralph will build, with the addition of the tubes he doesn't generally approve of as they don't meet The 20 Year Rule - though he does concede the superior sonics.

They have been driving Bud's longtime speakers, which he so generously gave to me late last year, a pair of Fried A/6, and a homemade pair of Zalytron designed Cabasse drivered medium sized stand mounted speakers - all to great effect. Also, the amps really deliver much better sound with the Coincident TRS I am using now (for whatever reason, my KT88 tubed Granite monoblocks do not sound very good with this cable).

Based on an incredibly thrilling listening session at a friend's, using my Lowther ceramic magnet PM6Cs in his Lowther designed 36" tall ported cabinets, I will be going with my alnico magnet PM6As in a similar, but larger 44" tall cabinet (no, I don't just listen to Frieds). At that point, I'll try the M60s, but would have no qualms in getting a good 2A3 or 300B amp as well for these babies should the marriage not be ideal.

We ARE going to introduce a minimonitor. It addresses the incessant pleadings of Bud and myself to reintroduce the Beta, and open things up to people who want a smaller speaker, or have less money to spend on a pair of loudspeakers. Dr. Raines wants Fried to symbolize all of the best of what Bud accomplished, so they will be more upscale than the Betas. They will use a true Transmission Line bass loading, and, of course, the first order series crossovers. I feel that the technology in this speaker is a few notches beyond what is normally encountered. Especially, at their price. But, I'm not a techno snob, I focus on sonics. Because of that, I certainly do buy into the inherent superiority of TL and series crossovers. The cabinetry, as I am sure, Dodgealum will attest of the Studio 7, is first rate - better than I'd ever need. The cost will be $1750, which I think represents tremendous value, but who am I to make such a statement?