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Are those high end (and very expensive) speakers really better than the JBL's?
All things considered, NO! The media we are playing was not recorded by God. None of it sounds live. So why spend a lot of your hard earned money trying to reproduce imperfections mo better! I am considering JBL myself. I have owned JBLs model: L-150 and 4311 and LX-44. loved them all.
cheers |
'Once you stack them side by side with great stuff though, you can hear the deficiencies.'
Only if you can see the equipment, will you be able to 'hear' the imagined differences / deficiencies. Put everything out of sight and NO ONE can tell or hear a difference. Not wanting to revisit this 'sensitive' subject, except that there might be new people here who do not know the history of blind testing. I am primarily speaking of electronics.
Cheers. |
'If you still don't think it's worth seeking out higher performance equipment after that then at least you will not have to waste time with this hobby anymore.'
Thats good advice, but my hobby is the music. I'm not wasting my time, jusr trying not to waste money. Music has always played a big part in my life. |
'YEah Rok2id, we are actually all just pretending to be able to hear any differences'
AHA!! just as I have always suspected!
And don't trash YORX, I plan to upgrade to a YORX system one day, once the kids are outta college. |
A lot of blind testing was done with a strange system, and in a strange environment
So? Are you saying you need familiar surroundings to be able to tell the difference between a $129 dollar receiver and a $20,000 'high-end' amp? |
'And IMO, it is the folks incapable of being able to tell, who try to say no one can.
thank you.'
Well hush my mouth. |
.I wasn't aware that anyone compared a $129 dollar receiver to a $20,000 amp..
they don't now, they did back in the day of honest researchers.. I think the brands were pioneer and Krell, but I can't be sure.
why do you say everything twice? |
I gotta wonder, on the basis of your earlier comment, whether you've actually heard a great speaker.
Read my post
'primarily speaking of electronics'. But does apply to speakers to a lesser degree. |
'And my response to that is what I said -- have you ever actually *heard* a great loudspeaker'
That's a impossible question to answer. First, there would have to be widespread agreement on a 'great' speaker, and as I have said on many occasions, I have not detected any widespread agreement about anything, on this site. Please take this oppoutunity and list a few speakers you consider great.
I think my Polk Lsi15's are great speakers. (git that sneer off yo face!) :) |
Onhwy61
I have read a lot of posts where any number of speakers have a cheering section and loyal fans. They all think their speaker is a great speaker.
My problem is this:
This is a mature industry. The design principles that consitute a state of the art speaker should be well known to all engineers. Which to me means, all speakers should look similar and have a lot of common features and design cues. If one speaker costs $1,000 and another cost $20,000, then that difference in price should be readily apparent and obvious to any audiophile. This is not the case.
For instance, why does a Vandersteen, which I am sure is a fine speaker, cost tens times what my Polks cost? Do they know something Polk does not know? Do the components cost more on the Vandy? How much can a driver or crossover cost? Do they drive the price up by $12,000 dollars? The Vandys 'sound' better? WHY?
It should be a science. Not magic. In spite of all that I would try a lot of them if it wasn't for the high cost. Lastly I live in an Audio desert, so I will never hear the top of the line stuff. BTW, of all the speakers I have owned, I never heard any of them before purchase. No regrets so far.
Cheers. |
Gregm
Your comparison of the polk and vandy was very interesting. Having never heard the vandy or the polk 9, I cannot comment further.
I used the Vandy and Polk in my example just because they are two well known speaker brands. One highly thought of on audiogon and one not. Many other speakers could be subsituted in their place.
The point I was trying to make is this: If great speakers are being made, then the knowledge exist, so why don't all producers make great speakers. What makes a speaker great, and how much does it cost to make one? I used the price thing to show the wide differences in price and wondered what was the cause of this. I implied that surely crossover networks and drivers cannot account for this difference.
I used the mature thingy to say that are some down right weird designs out there in the market. What accounts for that? After all this time, don't the engineers have it down pat?
I get the 'price point' marketing thingy. And of course, speakers should be judged and priced based on how they sound.
Thanks for your response. |
The analogy between autos and stereo equipment continues on this site, and it's like apples and oranges. Not the best analogy. We are talking of how something is preceived by ONE of our senses. The sense of sound. A car affects almost ALL of our senses.
But I will say this about autos. Engineers thru the years have conceeded that Ford got it right with the models T/A. The lastest top of the line Lexus has the same lay out, plus a lot more. A blind man could see the difference. Now my speakers (polk) are the model T and yours are the Lexus(fill in a name). Now tell me why yours cost $100,000 dollars more.
BTW, I do not have a opinion against high end speakers. What I feel towards the high end stuff is envy!! And if I thought the sound justified the price, I would have a pair.
Cheers |
Your post is the most remarkable I have ever read on this entire site. And that's saying something.
First of all, I don't consider my involvement in music to be a hobby. Restoring cars, photography, wood carving and knitting are examples of hobbies. A love of music is not a hobby. Its just something a person either appreciates or not. And since I can't have performers follow me around performing for me, I had to buy equipment.
I looked at your systems on the systems page, and all I could say was wow!! I now understand why you call it a HOBBY. Like collecting guns, stamps or figurines. You collect stereo equipment/systems. I guess you got even for all those years having no money.
Some of the systems pictured on this site say MUSIC!! And some say LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE!!! Well, you know where you are.
BTW, I have the same audio rack as you do! So There!! :) |
'Anything can be a hobby. Like annoying people on the internet for example.'
Careful with that wit, you might cut someone. |
Hifitime
I did the same thing in Europe. I think I visited every audio club in southern Germany. And I was always trading with my friends. At one time I had two Revox rtr's two nakamichics and more amps than I could keep track of. I was out of control. But with the comeing of the CD, I came to the conclusion that speakers were the only things that could be significantly improved upon. I guess I was in the hobby phase then, as it's meant here. But it was always the music for me. It took me many places, and still does to this day. I can't tell you were I was when I heard of the Kennedy assassination, but I know exactly where I was when my lady gave me the OK to get the complete set of Beethoven's syms by Karajan and the Berliners.(lp)(67usd) Sitting at an outdoor cafe in Nurnberg, Germany. Still have it.
Thanks for your story. |
Josh358
Thank you. An excellent, informative discussion. I guess I sort of forgot about the 'black art' aspects of speaker design. I thought it would all be math by now.
I guess this reasoning is why no one can build a 3-series, except BMW, no matter how hard they try.
Thanks again. |
