"Power conditioners restrict power flow. That is just the nature of the beast. I don’t care who makes it they all work basically the same way. Get rid of it."
Simply wrong. Synergistic Research Powercell 10/12 does not restrict current and works completely differently than other "power conditioners".
It also does not perform surge protection. Nor will any claimed surge protector/conditioner prevent damage from lightning strikes. The place for a surge protector is on your TV cable line (only, unless you like choking the current flow to your audio system).
psinyc, which Powercell model do you have?
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Hi michelzay,
Tara Labs makes fine products and their "conditioners" are some of the best. This quality of power products is what I call "AC Enhancers" vs "power conditioners" to differential them from the "choke type" conditioners described accurately by benjie above.
Best to you,
Dave |
Good to know, michelzay.
I notice you mention modified MPCs. Are you referring to Michael Spallone’s mods? All of my MPCs have been modded by Michael and the improvement over the stock MPC or even the Galileo is phenomenal.
I agree that power products need to be matched to the system, just like power cords. I had a prior version, Powercell 10 Mk II, several years ago and would agree with your assessment of the sound it imparted, but yet it still delivered a huge drop in the noise floor and enhanced soundstaging.
Most manufacturers improve their products over time and this is true with the Powercell. With my system, Thiel CS5i’s with SS pre and SS amp, the more recent Powercell 10 UEF gives me what I feel to be a "just right" sound characteristic. Adding the FEQ module (normally included with the Powercell 10 UEF along with the Element Tungsten Copper active power cord and Teslaflex AC receptable) adds a good bit of transient snap, further lowers the noise floor, and adds several degrees more air and soundstage dimensionality.
I am told by friends whose systems and ears I trust that the new Powercell 12 delivers a good bit more improvement in the aforementioned areas by using Graphene in the power cord, the EM cells, and the power rails.
I will be on the lookout for a used PM2 or Ad6 to try. Your recommendation is meaningful as you have experienced what the best AC enhancement products can do.
Best to you michelzay,
Dave
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Hi markus1299,
Which Powercell did you have?
Dave |
Crickets. Hmmm.
henrycai, today, 11/27/16 on the "power conditioner" thread:
"I had 2 different regenerating units from P S Audio in the past, I found them a waste of money, the gentleman bought my last premier PS Audio unit said it did not do anything for him either.....that’s why after awhile you see there big ac regenerating units 50% Off......I can buy there $5,000 units n smaller units now from there dealers for 50% off, I do not feel there worth it......................................................"
I guess opinions vary, markus...
Dave |
Hi psinyc,
Synergistic Research never made a Triton pc to my knowledge. Perhaps you mean to say Shunyata Research Triton?
Best to you psinyc,
Dave
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Hi cleeds,
I should have been more specific re: surge protectors. I am talking about the products that serve as intermediaries between the wall receptacle and the equipments’ power cords that claim to provide surge protection via sacrificial MOVs (90%+ of them I estimate).
Never had a surge via the electrical line damage equipment in my 45 years in audio, twelve of these in "storm-from-hell"/hurricane prone southeast Texas. Not to say extensive/expensive protection at the meter/breaker box is not a good idea. To the contrary, I think investing in power upgrades as early as possible in the AC chain probably results in a lot of sonic and power benefits to the whole house.
The most likely current surge damage occurs via TV cable IME. Happened to me when I first moved to Texas years ago while living in an apartment, taking out a brand new CRT TV. If a system contains a TV cable input (HT) like mine does, surge damage to all connected components is possible.
Best to you cleeds,
Dave
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Nice post, psinyc. Glad your Shunyata is working well for you.
Just out of curiosity, do you have a dedicated line feeding that receptacle?
Dave |
So, Benjie, since what the rest of us hear does not agree with your opinion, it is our minds that are at fault. There is a word for that I think.
Provide a list of the AC enhancement products that you have owned to add credibility to your opinion.
Here is mine in chronological order:
1) API Power Wedge - reduced dynamics to amps, benign otherwise
2) Monster THS 5000: reduced dynamics to amps, benign otherwise
3) Chang Lightspeed CLS6600ISO - reduced dynamics to amps, lower noise floor to other components
4) Furman ITReference20i: slight reduction of noise floor, benign otherwise excepting VHC amps
5) PS Audio Power Plant Premiere: very audible reduction of noise floor, benign otherwise excepting VHC amps
6) SR Powercell 10 mkII: significant reduction of noise floor, expanded dynamics and soundstage, no impact on current flow to amps, including Krell FPB-600c
7) SR Powercell 10 UEF/FEQ: incredible reduction in noise floor, greatly expanded dynamics and soundstage, no impact on current flow to amps, including Krell FPB-600c
Notes:
1) The first four used "passive" chokes and MOVs in the circuitry that limited ultimate current flow to varying extents.
2) A four year period occurred between the two Powercells (6 & 7) due to financial constraints. More than enough time for my ears/mind/whatever to loose its power-conditioner-corrupted aural memory.
3) Krell FPB-600c tested by JA of Stereophile to produce 152 amps of peak current and 6000w/ch @1ohm.
4) Units 3-7 were plugged into dedicated 30-amp line and extensively compared to 30-amp dedicated line directly.
Dave
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benjie,
Not important to meet my criteria, only to qualify your experience with power conditioners so as not to unintentionally mislead. Your amplifiers more than meet any reasonable criteria for excellence and are VHC models, like mine. That, combined with the power conditioner models you listed, tell me that your observations are not surprising.
My point is that there are models available today that use completely different technologies and produce entirely different results. The two that I know of that avoid the shortcomings you have experienced are recent top models from Tara Labs and Synergistic Research that also deliver very positive results in noise floor reduction and soundstaging improvement. Most probably there are others. Everyone’s opinion of which ones work best is obviously valid and helpful, even if contemptuous, but dismissing people’s positive experiences with SOTA power enhancement, well, not so much.
Dave |
"Power conditioners restrict power flow. That is just the nature of the beast. I don't care who makes it they all work basically the same way. Get rid of it."
"It doesn't sound right to you because you are use to hearing the music through a power conditioner that softens the bass and shrinks the soundstage and takes the edge off the highs."
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benjie,
I think knownothing said it best. Hopefully you will understand that one.
I will add that of reviewer friend of mine asked some of the proprietors of top equipment companies at RMAF (that did not offer power enhancement products in their line) why they did not use power enhancement products in their show systems and they told him that they felt that it was more truthful to show their equipment sans power enhancement gear so as to not mislead potential buyers regarding the sound quality of their gear. All polled agreed that the best power enhancement products would further improve the sound of their equipment had they used them.
The last year I attended RMAF (2012), the Synergistic Research room won the "Best Sound" award from The Absolute Sound and the "Best of Show" award from Marc Michelson plus a very favorable mention from Stereophile.
Dave |
So now we have four (Tara Labs, Synergistic Research, Audience, and Audioguest Niagara) that have been recommended as non-current-limiting options. |
