Amir and Blind Testing


Let me start by saying I like watching Amir from ASR, so please let’s not get harsh or the thread will be deleted. Many times, Amir has noted that when we’re inserting a new component in our system, our brains go into (to paraphrase) “analytical mode” and we start hearing imaginary improvements. He has reiterated this many times, saying that when he switched to an expensive cable he heard improvements, but when he switched back to the cheap one, he also heard improvements because the brain switches from “music enjoyment mode” to “analytical mode.” Following this logic, which I agree with, wouldn’t blind testing, or any A/B testing be compromised because our brains are always in analytical mode and therefore feeding us inaccurate data? Seems to me you need to relax for a few hours at least and listen to a variety of music before your brain can accurately assess whether something is an actual improvement.  Perhaps A/B testing is a strawman argument, because the human brain is not a spectrum analyzer.  We are too affected by our biases to come up with any valid data.  Maybe. 

chayro

Showing 2 responses by asctim

The interesting experiments are really hard to do. I can imagine a test involving giving some audiophiles long term daily access to a very highly regarded system in an excellent listening room. The trick would be to change things out and see if they hear it. Change out a real copy of an amp or pre-amp or other component with a shell version that looks identical but has different innards. Have available a form to report if they hear something sounding off or degraded, or improved. They would never be told about the fake components being sneaked in on them. The point isn’t to put them on the spot, but to see if they notice changes when they aren’t expecting them at all. I would distract them with some kind of claim that the test was about medical and mental benefits of high end audio use, or something like that. If it is found that they do notice changes on gear that supposedly measures well enough to be beyond the hearing limits of humans, then we have something interesting to start testing - just what is it that’s different about these components that allows people to hear the difference? If something is found, then that can be tested in future components and our understanding of how to make good sounding equipment will be advanced. Without some testing like this, all the reporting of improved sound without a meaningfully correlated measurement is just anecdotal accounts of subjective experience that give us little to build on. People perceive they are hearing differences I have no doubt. But they don’t know why although they offer conjecture. Perhaps the manufacturers do know why but if so they aren’t sharing information that would be very valuable to science and would dramatically enhance their reputations far beyond the audiophile world. As it stands I don’t see research in high end audio reproduction trickling advancements into other fields. That kind of substance doesn’t seem to be present. It’s always the other way around. Or am I wrong?

I really like what Amir is doing on ASR. Measurements are super helpful in gaining a better understanding of what is happening when I like or don’t like reproduced sound. They help me get to where I want to be without stumbling in the dark so much, or overdoing something while another issue is the real problem. I generally find the science he goes by matches what I hear. I’m open though to the possibility that something that escapes the standard set of measurements could make an audibly important difference to me. Recently I’ve started to think I’m hearing a meaningful difference if I digitally reduce the input to my dacs, and then turn up the pre-amp at the analog stage to get the volume back up. It seems more dynamic. If that’s the truth I should be able to measure it somehow. As for why that might be, my dacs are modified in a way that is generally considered not good practice - they don’t have op-amps on the outputs and just feed straight into the pre-amp stage. I’m thinking they might be pooping out when asked to output too much voltage due to insufficient impedance on the pre-amp inputs. In any case, I think I’m hearing something as an improvement that I wouldn’t have thought would be an improvement because of loss of bit depth, but perhaps it is because bit depth isn’t the limiting problem in my case. For now I’m just enjoying the perception, but I’d like to figure out how to test this and see if I can show some measurements to back up this idea. If I can, I might want to invest in some new dacs, or a new crossover unit, or both! You know, I guess I could send my crossover unit to Amir and have him measure it! But then my stereo would be out of service.