I think you will find the Amarra only works for firewire output from itunes to Weiss equipment. On the Weiss I tried it was night and day difference. But into the DCS via digital outs made no difference. |
Rrsclyde,
I convert 44.1k/16 bit files to 44.1k/24 bit, then that output is sent to my upsampler which upsamples it again to DSD. Aside from the DSD upsampling, the 44.1k/24 bit seems to make the high frequencies have more air and sound generally cleaner. Just dont ask me why? |
In many ways I agree with our passionate friend Blindjim. Unfortunately in the real world bits are not only bits because they get transported from one place to another through all manner of software and circuits. It would seem the moving of the bits is where the ideal world starts to fall away and problems arise.
I have Macs and PCs all geared towards music production and playback. I like both formats. The fact is that Macs straight out of the box seem better suited to music applications. However a PC built and programmed to deal with music will be as good if not better than any Mac. But every PC I have owned has taken some effort to make it work to its best. But if you factor in the price difference, the PC will be a "better" machine although you are on your own with it.
This is why I think many go for the easy Mac option. Each model is exactly the same wherever in the world you are. This cannot be said for most PCs which can be built from an huge range of components from different manufacturers, causing many of the issues and compatibility problems found on the PC platform. ie This motherboard with that chipset etc.(sometimes an advantage)
Regarding Amarra mini, I found it worked very well over firewire with Weiss equipment. I have not had time to try it with other firewire interfaces to judge it. (I have a few different interfaces for pro audio work (RME/MOTU/Apogee), and some do work with Amarra.)
However I would not say the little Weiss is the last word in digital on its own, but at that price the Weiss DAC/Amarra/itunes is extremely good and hard to beat.
It is pointless to use itunes/Amarra from the digital output of your computer to a DAC. Amarra made little if no difference. The Little Weis DAC was average using it non firewire from s/dif and optical inputs. But I must say running itunes firewire with Amarra to the Weiss was significant. |
Hi Antipodes_audio,
I have had the same experience. I have found that sending cds ripped as AIFFs on the mac in itunes without Amarra, with the digital output settings set to 24bit 44.1, and sent to my upsampler causes quite a change in "air" to the presentation when compared to 16/44.1. That is just one setting change! Obviously some recordings can suffer, but most well recorded tracks sound much better.
On the PC, which is custom built and running Vista, I have music production software which uses its own ASIO, and depending on which software is running, the same computer with the same interface etc sounds very different. So hardware changes are a whole other story!
To be honest I have given up for the time being with my source. The flexibility I have now far out weighs any slight changes in presentation. At the moment my system sounds great and I cannot really complain. I stay interested and listen to what new equipment I can, and keep my software up to date. I think this computer source quality situation will run for quite some time. I guess Amarra with a firewire interface is the best compromise at the moment.
The non pro music playback software on the PC still seems a little under developed to me. Sonics aside. |
Antipodes audio, Drubin,
my point exactly...
Ps Antipodes by BS I was referring to some audiophile cable manufactures in general. Not you necessarily of course (unless you have been eying up snakes in your spare time!). I did not know you made cables. I also am aware that some metals have shot up, which must mean the bill is passed on.
I have come across some cables that have only been renamed and covered in a thick pretty outer sleeve and sold for unfair sums. |
Hi Antipodes_audio,
for the time being as long as your files in your library are universal, ie WAV or AIFF etc. I personally feel it is just a waiting game. It is all fine and better than it was. It will get better and probably cheaper too.
I use itunes on a mac and have got used to itunes. I have Amarra, but I am not using firewire interface for my hifi. I just tried a few out to see what did what. I have a DCS set up and DCS are working on the Amarra/itunes input situation. They have gone with USB input, but the Asynchronous flavor.
I suspect your own HD library will be bypassed by the time all this comes of age. Sites like Spotify will make all this obsolete, as you will rent your library and have access to insane amounts of music, including really rare albums at very high quality sample rates.
Regarding Pro audio interfaces, do you mean software or hardware? |
Hi Antipodes_audio,
there seem to be many deals in place regarding online libraries. The frightening part of it is the people who created the music see very little in return. It really is bad, but that is another topic.
For my work I use many different types of music production software. They are not much use for a library playback system, as they are mainly geared towards recording/mixing and manipulating audio.
Professionally I use a wide range of software and hardware, but the software of choice for me is Steinberg's Nuendo 4 which is 64 bit on PC. Although I also use Cubase (a baby brother of Nuendo) on PC, Protools on Mac, Wavelab on PC, Digital performer on Mac, and the various plugins associated with them too.
The hardware I use differs depending on the software in use, but I have RME fireface 800, which is a firewire 800, 24 bit 192k preamp/ converter, Apogee Rosetta converters, Digidesign HD 192k, MOTU 896mk3 firewire which is also 192k.
I have found the DCS Scarlatti converters the finest hifi playback I have heard. Every time I am taken with their resolution and lack of character.
You say you have been eying up DCS. If you can get one and try it. But I must say that for sometime I passed by DCS, until I had one at home. I was shocked at how much better they were, and have had them ever since. I am sure there are others coming out now which are capable and hopefully cheaper, but DCS set the bar IMHO no matter which input.
I am also a firm believer in the optical input ( I am not mad). Everyone trashed it, but when I had the old Ref ML Transport/DAC, the dealer at the time told me to try it. I had always used AES/EBU with an expensive cable. I popped in a glass cable and was shocked. It was a 10th of the price and sounded as good if not better, especially for midband speed. Ok so it is limited to 24/96, but if you find yourself around that resolution, give it a go. Not dissimilar to Amarra's effect over firewire. Like a lightness or freedom to the sound.
I have upsampled to DSD from glass on the DCS upsampler for 16/44.1k and 48k. It works well and means the source can be a long way from your hifi without any problems. |
Antipodes_audio,
The firewire connection is worrying too. The BS is just starting there too. I am not sure if firewire 800 suffers the same issues as 400, regarding the total length of cable ( I think the longest 400 is 5m in length).
I was surprised at how Amarra worked so well over firewire, but does the quality of the cable itself cause problems? I hope we are not going to get ripped off again by snake oil cable manufacturers for firewire & USB audio cables. I have seen a few expensive ones already.
DCS use firewire as a DSD connection, and the cable quality proved to be quite important there. I dont know if this is still the case with a normal firewire connection from a computer. But if you believe Crystal cable and Siltech, they are willing to take $1000 for a firewire cable. How do they do it? What on earth have they done? Extra shielding? Solidcore silver and teflon? Let the BS begin... |
I didnt mean to turn this thread into a bashing of audiophile vendors or manufactures. Everyone is trying to make a living. It is a niche industry.
I guess we all here on the 'gon love this hobby, one would hope that people within it would show some respect for that. I am sure most manufactures and vendors are involved for the same reason as us. A love for music and music playback.
In my experience most people within this hobby are honest and make worth while products and are doing the best they can. The pricing policies I guess reflect the small market. |
Antipodes_audio,
good luck to you. One of my best friends lives not too far from you. A beautiful country.
I had a quick look at your cables. I would normally be up for trying a set out, but I am very happy with my cabling at the moment.
I use the Analysis Plus Golden Oval which I think is a very fine cable, especially as an IC. Everywhere else I use the difficult, but great sounding Virtual dynamics cables. They have an ultra low noise floor and the finest bass and dynamic freedom of any cable I have tried. I was toying with the idea of moving to Stealth cabling, but when I priced it up I lost the will...
I guess we are drifting off topic. Apologies. I think I can save the thread though. Amarra works great with itunes on none compressed files via firewire. You gain fine detail, air, and a sense of naturalness. Phew! |
Hi Antipodes_audio,
I think you have to be careful here. Remember that DCS dont have firewire as I believe you are thinking of it. The firewire on DCS devices is a DSD connection, not a computer connection. Therefor you still need an interface for your computer ( Although try your computers digital output. It may surprise you). The DCS ring DAC will make the best of it. If you cannot stand the sound of the computers built in digital output, or it doesnt have one, then a soundcard of some sort is needed.
You must remember that the Weiss is both an interface and a DAC. So if you went for a DAC2, that would be all you need. So in that light not a bad price, plus Amarra of course.
There is a version of the Weiss AFI 1 (digital output only), but aimed at a AES/EBU stereo output, as opposed to 8 AES/EBU outs or more, which will be much cheaper. I guess around $500. I am sure it will be just the ticket. Not sure when it is out though and you still need a DAC and cables.
If you want to go for Pro/semi Pro soundcards, life gets a little complicated. There are many, and all have specs that may be useless to you, like mic preamps, multiple ins and outs and so on. Also a lot of the new Rack mounted equipment uses space saving TRS balanced sockets (Large stereo headphone jack plug used as balanced mono), or D connectors with multiple outputs.
You are probably capable of making your own cables(!) so in that case RME are good. There is a PCIe card too, the HDSPeAES, but it is 16in/16out 192k with word clock in/out. Good though. I dont know of a card with just a single AES/EBU. The Lynx 2 is good too.
It is very hard to recommend you something as I dont know your set up, or exactly what you need, ie Volume control etc, but I suspect Weiss is the best simple option. Otherwise you get into a soundcard plus a DAC etc.
I am not a fan of M-audio. I have had some problems with them, but one of my friends has the cheap firewire soundcard and it is ok at less than $100. Not Highend though. |
