2. analog
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Am I on the right analog track?

I recently rejoined the big round plastic music spinners group and I am curious if I made some good decisions. Yea, I know that �how it sounds� is how you tell but I will get to that later. I wanted a lower priced but quality turntable and I found a good price on a Project Perspective with a Blue Point Special cartridge. This combination had good reviews and a lot of happy thoughts so I took the dive. The folks at HCM Audio set it up the cartridge for me since I have never done it. I put the pieces together, set the tracking force, and spun it up. It sounds alright. A little more rich, a little more harmonious. But a heck of a lot more work. Being handicap does not help my mood as I need to keep bouncing up and down but I don�t think that I am that bitter. So, I purchased some of those 180g music frisbees and a Nitty Gritty cleaner, some last products. But I will have to tell you, I really expected a lot more. So I must be doing something wrong. I mean, it is not rocket science and I did all the voodoo dances that I know of. But maybe I am missing something. Did I just get my expectations too high? I am an analytical engineer, techie type so I would normally tend towards more detail that goldeness. I am running this table through Harmonic Tech Truth Links to a Nad Silverline preamp with the add on phono. I have the sensitivity set high on the phono preamp so I can compare it easier with the CD�s. Maybe that �beyond the reality of real music� detail of digital has tainted my taste buds so that I prefer sterility to wholesomeness. But I just expected more. And here�s the real clincher to this odd tale. How do I know if I got it all set up right anywise. Do the turntable police show up and cite me. Is there more to the meaning of music on vinyl than I can perceive. IS THERE A WAY TO TELL??? It was a snicker when I realized that the little string with the weight on it was to be over that little post on the back of the tonearm and not to just hang from the little springy goody. Silly me! Dale
mcne
9 responses Add your response
psychicanimal
1,738 posts
 
I agree 100% with Frank. Need above average phono stage (which I do). My cheap college years' Yamaha TT with a Sumiko Blue Point (properly tweaked) would beat a $300 Technics CD player (year 1993). I recently bought a Cambridge CD player and was amazed at what it can do for the money...let's see how far I can go when I get done with modifying my Technics table. It's going to be really interesting.
frap
213 posts
 
Dale,It is very difficult to get out of the record grooves the data stored inside of them. One of the easiest things to do is to play an LP wrong. For $200.00 one can buy a CD player that will get you about 90% of whats on the CD. With LP, there are a whole lot more factors coming into play. The phono section of your NAD in no way can compete.(yes I have owned NAD equipment and like it for the money) Let me put it another way. If I were to do an LP rig on the low budget end, I do not think it could equal the current sound of low priced CD players with good sound. You really do need an above average phono stage, to exceed current CD performance. Just my take on it....Frank
sc53
719 posts
 
Hi, I agree with the previous poster who recommended you listen to some excellently recorded LPs, the 180 gram versions, before judging your TT setup. I have tons of vinyl and a top of the line Linn turntable system, and some records still sound hideous, very thin and brittle or with other obvious shortcomings. Really good recordings on heavy vinyl are another story, however; that's when you get the best out of your TT system. My old LPs just mainly sound like crap, but I played them to death 30 yrs ago and they sounded fine on my "system" then, so I got my money's worth.
plato
1,543 posts
 
Well, to be fair, digital sources and analog turntable systems come at many different price and performance levels. The Project Perspective with the Blue Point Special cartridge is hardly the best analog source that can be found, and you never did say which CD player you were comparing it to. Also, there are many things (tweaks) that can be done to improve the sound of a TT system. Neglecting the nuances of proper setup, such as precise leveling, cartridge adjustment, and mounting the TT on a suitable base, can only result in mediocre performance. Maybe you didn't do the correct VooDoo dances...or maybe your digital gear is very high quality, and won't be beat at the performance level of analog rig you purchased. And as someone else opined, a better cartridge could make a very large improvement.
david99
1,467 posts
 
sometimes we do expect too much.analog vs digital is not like night and day.It is ALMOST like comparing apples to apples.I believe analog rules but not by much.If you have the $110 outboard NAD phono stage you may consider selling it and buying a Lehmann Black Cube.You may also want to audition different cartridges.my Grado Platinum put my system in a higher level over others I listened to.dont give up! the ease and smoothness of analog will grow on you.....
costrosk
101 posts
 
Yep - definitely right track. And Psychic has it right,as well, I think. The NAD phono pre ain't all it can be, by a mile and a tenth, IMHO. I'm not completely enthralled by my Creek OBH-8, either, but it's better than the NAD (on either my NAD amp or my tuber!). I haven't tried the 8se, however, perhaps it is better, but I'm scrounging pennies and nickels right now for sundry upgrades, one of which will likely be a Lehmann Black Cube, which seems to make most vinylphiles happy.

the other thing you didn't mention is what vinyl you were spinning. My older records have been played to death, and no amount of gear is going to fix their sound, but the few 180 gram records I have are glorious (even with the Creek). Before you lose faith, try the setup with at least one really good record. It will sound different than a cd, but that may not necessarily be a bad thing.

chas
david99
1,467 posts
 
sometimes we do expect too much.analog vs digital is not like night and day.It is ALMOST like comparing apples to apples.I believe analog rules but not by much.If you have the $110 outboard NAD phono stage you may consider selling it and buying a Lehmann Black Cube.You may also want to audition different cartridges.my Grado Platinum put my system in a higher level over others I listened to.dont give up! the ease and smoothness of analog will grow on you.....
mcne OP
113 posts
 
I ws very kind of you to respond to my foolishness. As you may or may not know, the Nad SilverLine is Nad's attempt at the high end. And it is quite respectable. The phono preamp that I am using is the $300 add on to the S100 preamp. I do have some older albums from the days that I had a P-mount table and they sound fair. But not as good as most of the CD's that I regularly listen to. But we are talking all reference CD's so I may need to adjust my expectations or stick with what I already like. Dale
psychicanimal
1,738 posts
 
Yes, you are! I recently auditioned the same setup you have at a store. It was rigged to a Carver Sunfire tube preamp. My first comment: "Definitely, CDs don't sound like THAT."

As for your phono preamp, is it that little NAD outboad that sells for about $110? If so, that's your weak link. I'm not going to go into what you should buy, there's many outboard phono options available. You might want to look at: Creek (the Special Editions), Audio by Van Alstine, Aragon and others. Klyne Audio Arts is my favorite...I don't particularly like straight tube phono preamps. Hybrids OK. I have an excellent transistor low output MC preamp.

You might want to think again why you went into analog in the first place. You said you had no records before. Do you want to collect stuff that's not on CD? Do you want to save money buying used records in excellent condition for a dollar or two that otherwise you'd never bought? (I do that). Or are you in search of better sound? Careful, you might steer away from the music...the weak link in audio is the recordings, there's nothing we can do about that. Just listen to the music, is all I can say.
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