Albert Porters after market panzerholz plinths

If I understand this thread correctly, neither Porter nor Dobbins actually remove the motor and platter of the SP10 from the chassis in their plinth designs, but instead remove the top of the SP10 chassis, and sink that into their plinths?

I agree with Albert.

We have a perfect, stock SP10 MK3 with EPA 100 arm and EPC 305MKII cartridge here at Oswaldsmill, as a reference unit. This has proved very useful in designing our own slate plinths. Anyone who would like to know how a SP10 MK3 in the original Obsidian base sounds (and I would imagine that Technics Panasonic spent a significant amount on testing and R&D of the Obsidian base) should come by for a listen.

Needless to say, I don't think there is any comparison even using an SP10 MK3 with a properly done high mass plinth (with a mere MK2.)

Jonathan Weiss
OMA

I guess my question in the midst of this s///t storm is not going to get answered? It's a really simple question, no interpretation or opinions required.

Hi Albert,

Thanks for the response- I did read Mike's response, but I always prefer getting an answer from the maker of a product directly.

As for what OMA does, we have always made slate plinths for customers with Technics SP tables, and continue to do so. I even have a client who does mastering for vinyl reissues such as Mosaic who uses a SP15 in one of our plinths, as he needed it to run backwards to play back metal "fathers" of 78's (apparently you can't easily do that with an SP10).

But our Tourmaline deck does indeed remove the SP10 motor and platter unit from the chassis, and mounts it directly into a 200 pound slate plinth. Which is why I was curious if either you or Steve had taken that approach.

I look forward to hearing both your SP10 system and Steve's at some point. Will either of you have a deck at RMAF? We will be in Room 573 with the above mentioned setup.

Yours,

Jonathan Weiss
OMA

Hi Albert,

I wish we could take credit for the rim drive you heard at CES, but we were not there, and have not made a rim drive deck to date. I wonder what you heard? All of our turntables and plinths are made of slate, but perhaps it was a Denham TTweights deck? I think he makes a rim drive?

You and I do concur that mass is everything in dealing with this type of deck. It's true I have not gone through the journey of self discovery that Raul has, training myself ruthlessly to hear in seconds what takes others years to discern, but the idea of a low mass plinth for the SP10 turntable has to be a colossal piece of silliness.

In any event, look forward to seeing you at RMAF again. And one of my favorite wooden Uwe bodies for the Denon 103 is the panzerholz. It's an interesting material.

Jonathan Weiss
OMA

Hi Albert,

You were referring to the 2008 RMAF show, where OMA debuted the Saskia turntable created by Win Tinnon, for which OMA made the slate plinth and other slate parts. That was an idler drive turntable, not a rim drive (a rim drive does not necessarily use an idler wheel, for example, such as in the Teres product, or in one of the TT weights decks.)

OMA no longer is partnered with Mr. Tinnon, by the way.

See you in Denver,

Jonathan

Dbcooper,

Its an interesting question, about testing a material to try and determine its sonic properties. Let me relate an anecdote which might be appropriate.

A couple of years ago, I was invited to one of the "jam" sessions held at Gregory Singer's violin shop on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Singer has a small performance space inside his wonderful shop, filled with some of the world's finest stringed instruments. Not only do Juilliard students often come to play, but so do some of the world's finest concert musicians. On the night I came, cellist Nicholas Anderson brought his Gofriller Count Marcello cello, made by Gofriller in Venice is 1697. The group played the Brandenberg Concerto, which was written a couple of decades after this cello was made. To say that I have NEVER heard anything like this instrument is an understatement. Even better was that I got to sit about 5 feet away from it, and I also had a chance to see the cello's back. Which is the point of this response- this cello has a bookmatched knot, not a small knot, but a really big, ugly knot, in butterfly fashion, on the upper section of the cello's rear.

I would think that in 1697 there was not a shortage of wood to use for making cellos. Its extremely rare to see even one knot in a Strad, Guarneri, etc. Yet this cello had not one, but two knots. As an aside, Pablo Casals and Jacqueline du Pre both played Gofriller instruments, but the real issue is, why did Gofriller use this material?

I don't think he did any "tests" in the sense you mean. There were no labs back then.

I'm not suggesting tests are not worthwhile, but you would have to know what you are testing for. Would it be transmission speed of sound through the material, and of what frequencies? And what thicknesses? In the case of Albert, since he is using a kind of clamping system to drain vibrations from his SP10 chassis, this would certainly affect the range of vibrations or resonances being transmitted into the plinth, so then how would you test that?

Furthermore, you would need to know what parameters actually make for the "best" sound. Given this thread, with people like Raul saying they know what the best sound is, I really doubt that there would be a lot of agreement on that score.

Jonathan Weiss
OMA

Hello Raul,

You wrote-

"There is no doubt that TT plinths can be measured to have information that can give the designer at least an idea where the design goes.

The real subject on measurements in an audio item ( including TT plinths. ) is that the designer has to know what to measures that can " predict " its quality performance or at least that that set of measurements can confirm ( be near. ) what he is listening."

So why did you not tell Albert, Steve and myself what we should be measuring? With all your audio knowledge, I would imagine you would know the scientific parameters of significance?

Please let us all know, so we can follow up on this.

Jonathan Weiss
OMA