Age old discussion I know but MM or MC? Benefits?

@uberwaltz

MM are great, cost less, gives more and you can look for the top carts mentioned by many users in the dedicated thread. No one knows which MM or MI would be the best in your system and it’s about personal preferences in sound. But the potential of vintage MM is huge, prices are real compared to MC. It’s always nice to get rid of all additional cables, suts, headamps etc, just to connect your MM to the phono stage to get the decent loud sound. Rare vintage MM cartridges will give you neutrial presentation much closer to the mastertape than most of the MC. The option with 100k load is also very nice to improve the sound quality.

MC cartridges are also good (often colored), but normally more expensive if you will get in count the price of the sut, headamps or high gain phono stages. They are more sensitive to cables, because the signal is so low. In the other words you can spend a lot to realize at the end of the day that your vintage MM is still better.

High Output MC are also not bad, i have at lest 2 of them.
I have MI cartridges as well and even very low output MM cartridge.

I was so disappointed with the very expensive modern MC cartridges, the prices are crazy and i can’s stand it, still can be fine for some people, but i don’t believe in the absolute cartridge, it’s always experiment, you never know.

I would avoid oldschool cartridges, conical tips and those broadcast denon 103 madness. MM cartridges from the 70s/80s are superior to the modern MM cartridges and of cource much better that oldschool MC carts.

It’s nice to have an alternative in the system (at least two tonearms with different types of cartridges). It is so much fun and always potential to find a better cartridge if you can compare them carefully.

@lohanimal 

Out of interest @chakster which cartridges do you call the vintage MM's?

I'm talking about top MM cartridges from the 70s/80s era, from various brands such as Audio-Technica, Stanton, Pioneer, Glanz, Grado, Grace, Victor ... Most of them are RARE today, but still not expensive compared to modern MC. Those vintage MMs are hard to beat at any price, but i'm talking about specific models, not all of them are interesting. 

Well, i have Joseph Grado Signature XTZ (MI) cartridge, but i can’t say that MM cartridges like the Grace Level II (or F-14 LC-OFC), AT-ML180 OCC, Pioneer PC-1000mk2, Stanton CS100 WOS are on the lower level, they are even better than MI. Life is not so simple!

Don’t forget the superb Moving Flux cartridges like the Glanz MF61

@harold-not-the-barrel but my post was addressed not to your statement, but to @schubert 's "MM all the way" 

P.S. I'm still not sure the MFG 610LX is equal to earlier MF61 which i have never seen for sale in many years. 

@the_treble_with_tribbles

The lowest output (0.6 mv) MM cartridge is Stanton 980LSZ - an old exciting magnetic cartridge design concept from the 1980. The 980LZS offer "low impedance" and will work directly into the Moving Coil (MC) input instead of MM input. It provides extended frequency response well beyond 50kHz. The 980LZS patented moving stylus system featured a Stereohedron nude diamond and ulta-low mass samarium cobalt magnet which allows it to track the highest levels found on the most sophisticated high technology records. It is insensitive to cable capacitance and load impedance above 100 ohms. Mr. Walter Stanton believed to his dying day that NO moving coil cartridge could ever be any good.


SPECIFICATIONS for the 980LZS:

Stylus Type: Nude Stereohedron Contact Radii: .0028 (71u)
Scanning Radii: .0003 (8u)Stylus
Tracking Force: 1 gram (+/- 0.5)
Setting with Brush: 2 gram (+/- 0.5) resulting operation tracking force 1 gram (+/- 0.5)
Frequency Response: 10 Hz to 50 kHz +
Output: .06 mv /cm/sec
Channel Balance: Within 1 dB @ 1kHz
Channel Separation: 35 dB @ 1kHz
Cartridge DC Resistance: 3. ohms
Cartridge Inductance: 1.mH
Cartridge Color: Chrome
*Cartridge Weight: 5.5 grams (*Brush weight self supporting 1 gram)
Load Resistance: 100 ohms or greaterLoad Capacitance: 1000 pF, or less (incl. arm leads cable and amp.)

"Aficionados of moving-coil (MC) cartridges will be surprices and pleased to learm that 980LZS is indistinguishable from the very best moving-coil (MC) types in the most rigorous laboratory and aural tests. Stanton’s is an impressive dual archivement. I was continually aware that 980LZS sounded like a moving-coil (MC) cartridge. The bass was well defined and tight with good sonic clarity, as well as transient response and applause definition. Transparency of sound was excellent when reproducing the high recorded levels present on most direct-to-disc recordings. At no time did i notice any coloration of the music. The 980LZS is also, one of the very few phono cartridges that can cleanly reproduce the cannon fire on the Telarc DG-10041 recording of Tchaikovsky’s 1812." - B.V.Pisha (Audio Review, Feb.1982)

Stanton’s 980 LZS cartridge was designed to be used in stereo systems which have high gain, low impedance MC inputs or use external head amps with inputs impedance of 100 Ohms or higher. Since the output of the 980 LZS cartridhe is .06 mv /cm/sec, 20 dB minimum of additional gain is required to step up the voltage to the level of the conventional MM cartridge. The 980 LZS features extremely low dynamic tip mass (resulting in rise time of 100 micro sec.), high compliance (30cu), replaceable stylus assembly designed with samarium cobalt magnet ans Stereohedron stylus tip.

Unlike ordinary high impedance cartridges, the 980 LZS is insensitive to capacitive loading. The Frequency response of the 980 LZS extends to beyond 50kHz in order to assure flawless reproduction of all overtones and signal harmonics which exist and are captured and recorded on modern discs. Although those frequencies cannot be heard directly, their interaction with other frequencies creates subharmonics which are in the audible range. Also any transducer capable of reproducing such high frequencies perform admirably within the audible rangeresponding without hesitation to any transient so vitally important in true recreation of original sound.

Stanton’s 980 LZS cartridge is a Moving Magnet pickup system with low impedance coil allowing the use of long cables between the turntable and preamp.The weight of the 980 LZS which is 5.5 grams, in comparison to relatively heavy moving coil cartridge (8 grams on the average) helps sound reproduction at low frequencies by improved tracking of warped records.

I owned this Stanton and i love Stanton cartridges, my favorite is CS-100 W.O.S signature model with sapphire coated cantilever and Stereohedron tip (very unique stylus/cantilever combo). The output of CS-100 is 3.2 mV.

Speaking about "top choice" you can't go wrong with Audio-Technica AT-ML170 MM cartridge. With this one you can forget about all MC cartridges and MC phono stages of any price. All you need is a normal MM phono stage. This cartridge is among my all time favorites, pretty rare one and much better than the most expensive MC i have owned. 

I just bought nearly all top MM cartridges from our "best of the month" list over the years, and i also bought several top quality vintage MC cartridges that our "opinion makers" considered the best only a few years ago. I did the same with the vintage tonearms and turntables. I also have had some brand new 21st century top quality LOMC. I even got reference tonearms like Reed 3P just to make sure that those vintage japanese arms are not bad at all. I’m 41 now, hope my hearing ability is ok, i could live forever with MM cartridges from my own edition of the "best of the month" list. I ask myself why do i need all those cartridges, including MC cartridges, 8 different tonearms, 9 different turntables, different phono stages, SUTs etc ??? It’s an interesting process to compare things, but i always return to what i really liked before - those vintage MM cartridges. I’m not the guy who will invest multy thousands on a single brand new cart anymore, enough for me, the vintage MM is the better choise for many reasons. I do have an MC alternative just to prove it for myself. Life is so much easier with vintage top quality MM carts. The rest for the records, no digital! And yes, i like tubes! 

@totem395 

A family relative of your Stanton 980LSZ is the Pickering XLZ-7500 and one I recently purchased with a very low output of .33 mv
and 3 ohm rating.
Another interesting Pickering is the XSV-5000 although not a super
low output at 3.8 mv a very nice sounding cartridge with
a similar stylus.

Yep, i know.
But my 3.2mV signature Stanton CS-100 W.O.S. with unique sapphire coated cantilever and Stereohedron II stylus was superior to low output 980LZS model. It was also superior to 881s MKII based on Pickering 3000, but improved. 

Stanton CS-100 W.O.S. is a keeper, a great sounding cartridge for 47-100k Ohm preamps. This is very rare model.