God created the cosmos (his room) and his acoustic because he did not want to spend money on speakers... 😁😊
«Idiot! God play guitar»-Anonymus poster
Showing 12 responses by mahgister
Acoustic: physical science... And psycho-acoustic which is the science relating physical acoustic to perception evaluation and experiments... Correlation in listening experiments between objective factors in acoustic measures or with acoustic devices ( panels or any other devices) and the subjective experience... --- I used passive material treatment: I experimented with balance between reflective and absorbing and diffusive characteristic of the room... --- I used mechanical activated control of the room using Helmholtz method: H. resonators and H. diffusers... This is like a finely tunable grid set of bottles and tubes mechanically adjustable distributed at some key location in my dedicated room... My philosophy is based on the scientific fact that we do not listen to the gear but to the system/room ... My method of tuning the room consist in transforming the room accordingly to my speakers needs and to my own ears timbre perceptive ability and to other acoustical cues perceptive experience...( soundstage,imaging,dynamic,listener envelopment etc) My motto is: No upgrade could ever give the powerful transformation given by the controls over the three main dimensions related to any audio working system: mechanical, electrical and acoustical... Dont upgrade anything BEFORE embedding it rightfully... Is not clear?
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i already said that here like you... But people are consumers not experimenters in acoustic... They bough, they dont learn how to listen anyway, and most call that a "taste" ... There is long debate about branded names value right now here... And useless debates about "tweaks"... Just to say my room cost me nothings and beat all the gear i could have upgrade to....We must learn acoustic, we dont buy it.... Because the highly tech acoustic room will cost more than any audio very costly system anyway... basic treatment and simple controls acoustic method are simple at the basis anyway...Complex to tune it asking for time listenings experiments but nothing is more fun and rewarding....Nothing...Certainly not upgrading the gear in an empty non treated and non controlled acoustical room......
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People dont know that acoustic is an experimental and pure science.. Not less sophisticated and cxomplex than electronical engineering... At best some will buy bass traps and 2 panels... 😁😊 They will call it acoustic treatment... They think that the amplifier and speaker design is what they listen to first and last ... The room is for them an almost neutral empty shell with no relation to what they hear and the room cost nothing anyway, then for them had no power to change the S.Q. compared to their shiny new costly amplifier or beautiful speakers.. This is consumerism conditioning... My system value is 500 bucks.. And my S.Q. /price ratio is over the roof because and almost ONLY because of acoustic treatment and especially acoustic control... Nothing can beat acoustic power in audio...Certainly not the speakers by themselves alone... |
Great post.... thanks....
It is precisely whati did not with only good passive treatment but more powerfully with full active mechanical room control... I verified what you just say...
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I bought my Tannoy dual concentric gold 450 dollars in 1975... I sell them 1000 dollars, i could have ask 2,000 dollars i think 3 years ago i sold them very quickly because they are rare speakers mythically search for...Not bad for almost 45 years speakers... Even if my actual speakers are smaller and very good i regret to have sell them... I was thinking at the times erroneously that headphone can rival good speakers in a treated and controlled room... I read some thread where people compared 500,000 dollars of gear with one another, i listen to that on youtube and i am satisfied comp^letely by my 500 bucks system ? am i deaf ? No i know that acoustic are not solved by buying few panels at most... Anyway a dedicated silly treated and controlled room at low cost is not possiible nor sexy for most people ande i understand that... And a professionnaly enginerred room will cost more than most costly audio system ... Then back to the costly gear with the illusion that audiophile experience come frpm the gear...not from the room at least at equal part, and most of the times for ordinary customer more from acoustic than from the basic gear... i was not knowleageable in acoustic 3 years ago... Alas! No audio magazine had acoustic article and facts and chronicle... Guess why? How do you sell costly speakers if acoustic is more important than the DIFFERENCE between the gear sold... ignorance of acoustic plague audio world...And make market consumerism better... People has no idea that the difference between comparable costly speakers is not at all comparable to the acoustic settings of the room which is way bigger impact... Basic speakers si good they are will not beat some costly qualitatively superior design but in a treated and controlled room they will TAIL them at short distance... This is the reason why my actual basically good Missiion Cyrus are superior in S.Q. now in my treated and controlled room to the higher design quality of the Tannoy dual gold concentric by a very great margin ... This is the power of acoustic... Almost no people here have a mechanically dedicated controlled audio room... Few have a dedicated passively treated room... A greater number have a system in a not so well treated living room... The majority had no treatment in their living room... And most think that their room untreated and uncontrolled is very good like it is... 😁😊 But acoustic dont change his principles with opinions in audio magazine...nor with ther superior design quality of some costly speakers...
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I forgot to say that for sure speakers are not all alike and costly one are costly because they are for sure probably better designed.. But we know for some time now to design good speakers at low cost... My point is that acoustic matter more than specific branded name speakers for the S.Q. experience most of the times... |
Sound is an acoustic phenomemon... The fact that sound can be also with technology progress an electrical/electronical induced phenomenon like with stereo system and speaker will not erase the fact that we listen not to the speakers alone but to the room/speakers...( sound waves cross my 13 feet square room 80 times each second) My 50 bucks used vintage speakers , well chosen for sure, but only very basic good one with bass capability in their specs. sound so good thanks to acoustic knowledge that any upgrade is no more appealing ever .. By the way comparing low cost speakers like mine to Volkswagen and costly speakers to Ferrari is only an half truth because the S.Q. experience is more related to acoustic than to the difference in electronical design, especially if the low cost system is already basically well designed... Then quit car mechanic and buy acoustic articles.... 😁😊 Concerning my speakers i will not dare to name their branded name here, because like i said my point is price tag are only an indication of probable quality design... and my post has nothing to do about boasting for a speaker brand... Now give me a room i know how to bent any room to serve any speaker at any price tag and even a low cost well designed speaker will give an astounding sound...I learned it alone for the last 2 years... Acoustic is the ONLY key to audiophile experience not price tag at all...It is not an opinion here, it is the result of an experiment with a 500 bucks system and acoustic.... A test now: Buy this extraordinary well recorded opera of Kurt Weill and the best interpretation of it anyway and listen... If the sound fill the room with no relation to the speakers at all , and with long part of this opera with singers BEHIND your head or sometimes exactly beside your right and left ears while instrument are in front of you in a large soundstage and imaging so spot on that you see the body of the singer walking and moving their head when singing in your room outside the speakers, and often beside you directly murmuring in your ear and with german spoken words syllabe clearly heard, then your speakers are good like my 50 dollars vintage one... 😁😊 If not, the good news is : it is not because your costly speakers are not well designed, it is probably because you have no cue about acoustic treatment and control...Simple... Audiophile experience MAY cost nothing, only acoustical basic knowledge with no cost at all to do the treatment and the control... I know i used mainly junk to do it... why? Because acoustic principle are mathematical principle and physical one with no relation to the cost or the shiny and esthetical appearance of the materials or devices used...
Then stop reading audio magazine with costly price tag and work your brain with acoustic.. It is the greatest fun i ever had...No cost....But here is the catch it takes time to do the fine tuning and it take a dedicated room... A dedicated room is the ONLY luxury in audio not the gear at all and his price tag...This is a market conditioning by magazine and the need to pay for new "improved" gear design for the company... Acoustic cost nothing if you want ....Save junk.... 😁😊 I apologize for my inconvenient truth....
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Yes i dont know your room for sure... And sometimes speakers dont work well... Dont take my post against you...I know very well that a dedicated audio room is not possible for all of us... I apologize if my post was oblivious of that... you know these speakers and i dont... My deepest respect to you...
P.S. yes my audio room is a crazy acoustic laboratory but it is because of that i has been able to figure out acoustic 6 rules for myself : Here are these 6 aspects of acoustic control parameters in a room i experimented with : 1 -Balance between absorbing surfaces, 2 -Reflecting one, 3 -Diffusive one.... This was "classical" passive material treatment of a room, now these 3 new other factors are related to my concept of the mechanical active control of a room ( what i called a mechanical equalizer): 4-control over reverberation time and timing of the wavefronts 5- control over the distribution of the pressure zones 6- fine layering and tuning of the laminar flow These 3 last aspects could be controlled with Helmhotz mechanical method NOT by electronical equalization... Then the piano will not sound the same from the same pair of speakers in a non controlled room and in a controlled one...Not even close...
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No speakers at any cost will beat by his upgrading power, These 6 aspects of acoustic control parameters in a room: -Balance between absorbing surfaces, -Reflecting one, -Diffusive one.... -control over reverberation time and timing of the wavefronts - control over the distribution of the pressure zones - fine layering and tuning of the laminar flow These 3 last aspects could be controlled with Helmhotz mechanical method NOT by electronical equalization...
Dont upgrade good speakers with costly one BEFORE studying and experimenting with acoustic... |
It is true that speakers must be commensurate and synergetically linked to the room... But is is not enough at all... A room must be treated materially but this is not enough also... A room must be mechanically controlled... After a rightful acoustic embeddings the price of speakers dont means much pass a certain price of the basic components... Acoustic rule not the box.... An acoustically dedicated room beat any piece of gear in improvement at any price...
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Put the less costly speaker in the best acoustical possible room for it and put the costly one in an ordinary room.. You will have your answer... For sure the high probability that the costlier one is better because best designed with more qualified component is there...The price margin is huge here... But no speaker at any price can beat the room anyway say a famous acoustician.... i will trust acoustic over any difference in price .... Save if this low cost speakers are really bad...
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