I have owned the Io, the Io Sig and the Manley but not all in the same system. I currently have the Manley with the Io Sig coming in a week so I may be able to shed more light in a little while.
FOR MY TASTES (and the tastes of two friends who have nice systems and what I think are good ears) the Manley was better than the Groove in the system I heard them compared in. Bigger sound, fuller, richer midrange (not mushy), greater bass impact and better dynamics (Groove owners, I only heard it in one system so take that for what it's worth)
I am very happy with the Manley, but really liked my Io Signature when I had it (I sold Io at the time because I had eliminated my line stage and needed a phono stage with a volume control - now I have a line stage again and my system is finally settled in all the other areas) - so I just want the opportunity to compare them in the same system.
I noticed your system doesn't list a turntable. What table/arm/and cartridge are you intending to use? |
Rayhall, I do not know if you are still following this thread but here are my initial impressions of the Aesthetix Io Signature versus the Manley Steelhead (both the latest versions).
First, my usual disclaimers: my opinions are simply that, they are based on MY tastes, with MY system, in MY room, based on MY past experiences and MY preferences as heard through MY ears!!
That said, I let the Io warm up for a few hours before listening. I also used both units with stock tubes (even though I KNOW that they can both be changed/improved/tuned to individual tastes with NOS tubes. I also set both at or near the same impedance usuing the exact same system and ICs and power cords to ensure nothing else new contributed to the sound.
For my money, the Io restored my faith in vinyl which had begun to wane. The Io Sig, IN MY SYSTEM, bettered the Manly fairly convincingly for what I value. It was much more dynamic, it had better transient attack, better image focus, bigger soundstage (both height and width) and was, to my ears, truer to the timbre and tonality of instruments. The music just seemed more effortless and less congested. Now I am told by friends I trust that you can drastically improve the Manley with some esoteric tube rolling (especially to improve dynamics) but I will leave that to Gladstone to fill you in on. I also think Gladstone is right that the tube regulated power supply is a major contributing factor to its incredible sound.
I am now going to tube roll with the Io but at a MUCH higher price due to the sheer number of tubes and will report the results (thanks Bruce and Albert for the tips!).
Down sides? Yup. The Manley is $1,700 less than the Io, the Manley is smaller and the Io produces more heat. Also, there is that old familiar tube rush at higher volumes with the Io that some people do not like. For me, I don't hear the tube rush when the music is playing and the real estate and heat issues disappear when that cartridge hits the LP!!
My good friend Brian (who is as sick as I am) put it best when he said "it just sounds right!"; I have felt like an Audio Goldilocks the last two years - "this phono stage is TOOOO this and that phono stage is TOOO that and this cartridge is TOOO this and that cartridge is TOOO that."
Well, this combo (Dynavector XV-1s and Io Signature) is "JUUUUUST right" for me! |
Albert,
Yes, the test was over within an hour in my home. With all due respect to EveAnna and the fine people at Manley, for my system and what I was yearning for with analog, it wasn't close (again this was with stock tubes in both units).
For the Io, I just purchased 14 NOS 12AX7s (Telefunken blue label), NOS 6922s (I have Mullard 6922s) and bought NOS Amperex white and green lable 7308s), NOS RCA red base 5692s (I also have Mullards and Ken Rads) and NOS Amperex EL-34s and GEC KT-66s.
So we will see what happens. Rayhall, I will keep you posted! If it gets much better I may have to be committed!!!
Thanks again Albert! |
Not ignoring anybody, just busier than all get out! Ya wanna know just HOW busy? Here's the proof:
Date: December 11, 2003:
Obsessive/compulsive audiophile pays extra to have $1,365 of NOS tubes shipped to him for receipt last Friday (obviously to play around over the weekend), and here we are on Monday night and he is at work with only a 50/50 chance of getting them installed tonight!!! Oh the HORROR!!!!
So, if I can do the ONLY decent thing and ignore my wife, my appetite and my employer tonight, I will FINALLY hear the magic!!! |
Well, Gladstone, I don't know why Wayne Grtezky would be commenting on the Io, but I would be willing to pinch hit for him! First, I have been playing around with the tubes and experienced a few quirks. Second, I am also experiencing a two-for-one dilemma I don't care for -- my Io is acting as a tuner and picking up radio stations like crazy.
That said, this phono stage is incredible. So far, after a bunch of experimenting, I currently have 4 NOS Telefunken 12AX7s in the first gain stage, a pair of RCA Red Base 5692s in the 6SN7 position and a pair of Amperex EL-34s in the power supply. I have had the most problem finding the right 6DJ8/6922/7308s - and I have tried some dandies. Right now, I have a Russian pair of 6922 equivalents that I got from Lamm as a spare set for my former Lamm M1.1s in the Io (which I like the best so far oddly enough) but will do some more swapping to comfirm.
I will also try the Telfunken 12AX7s in the second gain stage and in the power supply in a few days but I want to get a handle on this combination first before I throw anything else in the mix.
Patrick, you are not yet hearing what this great phono stage can do - wait until it is broken in, you remove the trannies and get it matched properly. TRUST me. Let me repeat that - TRUST ME, the Io is NOT the cause of your tubby base, it is the Dyna. The bass on the Io is nothing short of spectacular.
Tim, get off your young punk ass and GET AN ANALOG RIG!!!! Ok, just kidding, but it is fun for us old geezers!!
Jacob, you will be happy to know that vinyl once again has shown it is still champ. About three years ago I wrote a review on the Io when I was with Ultimate Audio. That was the original (non Signature) and back then I was waxing poetic about how the Io was allowing analog to stay ahead of all the new digital formats. The Signature simply starts where the original left off. But I will say this (as you already know), if you don't have your analog rig optimized, (e.g., good gear, properly matched and set-up correctly) the EMM Labs gear will have you wondering why anyone still does analog.
Now Jacob, get off your adult ass and show Tireguy how a REAL MAN does stereo and go buy yourself and IO!!!! |
Yes, Patrick, system synergy is EVERYTHING AFAIK. I have an Audio Magic Matrix (for my digital isolation) but agree with A.J., do not out your Io into it.
When you get an amp that mates well with the Io and in your system, look out, you will like what you hear on those black discs!! |
Patrick, call Jim White at (818) 759-5556 (company listed number) and speak to him. He is a great guy to deal with and quite helpful. |
Patrick, I don't know if this will help but I thought I'd share it with you. When I got my Io Signature, it sounded GREAT as well, but I had a BAD problem with it picking up a classical radio station and it was LOUD! I tried changing phono cables (supposed better shielding) different grounding patterns, different power cords, locating the power supply even farther away all to no avail. THEN, one day the power cord on my SME turntable motor controller accidentally come unplugged and the sound stopped completely. I tried a different PC on the motor controller and the sound lessened a bit but was still there. THEN, I plugged the motor controller into an Audio Magic Matrix power conditioner and the sound stopped dead in its tracks.
So, now that I knew the RFI was entering there, I have since then bought a Versa Labs IEC Wood Block for $50.00 and it too stops the sound dead.
Maybe a passive power conditioner such as these may help you.
Frank |
Guilty as charged! Oh, BTW, Gladstone, what NEEDLE is mounted on YER turntable at this time???????????? |
Ah, Tim, be gracious and patient Grasshopper! For Mr. Gladstone now HAS a Dynavector XV-1s on his turntable and, I might add, LOVES IT!!!
Mr. Gladstone will now remove the tongue from his cheek and own up to his follie!! |
Tim, now I KNOW yer dreamin!!!! |
