This is the Mogami cable I used
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B079JPY5PV?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
AES/EBU cable shootout
As I had promised (please refer to Grimm Mu1 thread and Fee for Audition thread under Digital for more context), I am going to share my experiences using different AES/EBU cables in my system. I am going to gloss over the general question of whether cables, especially digital cables make a difference. I am always careful in choosing my components, and unless something makes a tangible improvement in sound, I will never pay for something. If something makes an improvement, I do evaluate if it’s worth the asking price, and only then do I purchase it. So it’s up to you to decide if something is worth the price that you pay for. Also, please note that, these findings apply to my system in my room and may not translate into the same findings in your system.
Now let’s go into what I heard in my system. I had the following AES/EBU cables. The Mogami cable, Shunyata Omega cable, Nordost Odin 2 cable and the Sablon cable. Unfortunately I was unable to obtain the Jorma design cable as I was unable to reach the cable company either through phone or email. I am not aware of any other dealer who carries it near me.
There is a significant difference between the basic Mogami and the rest of the cables. The difference is easy to discern in the bass. There is simply more texture, dimensionality, and clarity that is missing in bass with the Mogami cable. This is unfortunate as this is the cheapest cable. The rest of the cables are closer to each other. It takes a bit of back-and-forth of listening to discern the differences.
First up was the Shunyata cable. This is an excellent digital cable which is extremely natural sounding. Everything sounds clear with a nice sound stage. The sound stage extends beyond the speakers with a nice depth to it. There is a sense of fullness to the sound, more fleshed out, but in a very natural way. This is the first cable that I had for evaluation (this belongs to my friend). I will be very happy with this cable, if it were my only option. This cable retails for around 4.5 k.
Next step was the Nordost Odin 2 cable. I understand that there is a significant jump in price as this cable retails for over 12 K. The difference between the Shunyata and the Odin 2 cable is more subtle. The primary difference is in the sound stage. The sound extends well beyond the speakers and front to depth soundstage is increased compared to Shunyata. There is also more detail and air at the top end. There is slightly more dynamics with the Odin 2 cable on back-and-forth listening. Please note, these differences are not in your face but subtle. Whether this is worth the price difference is something only you can decide.
The last cable that I had was the Sablon cable. The other cables measured 1.5 m but the Sablon was 1 m. I could not test if the length of cable makes a difference as I did not have the same cable in different lengths. (Please refer to Grimm Mu1 thread for context.)
The Sablon cable brings a lot of nuance to the entire spectrum of sound. The bass is taut and has a lot of finesse. String instruments reveal a good amount of inner detail, whether it’s plucking or bowing. Percussion sounds realistic. It nicely brings out the textures and extremely accurate with regards to tone and timbre. The mid range is extremely clear and well presented, which is one of the strengths of this cable. The top end is clean and extremely accurate. It has an uncanny ability to make the softest sounds really fleshed out and clear. If are a Pink Floyd fan “Hello Colonel, how are you tonight” never sounded this clear, it’s like you are on shrooms.
This is how I would compare the Shunyata, Nordsost and Sablon. The system plays a huge role in laying out the differences. The bass is similar in all the three cables, they go deep, feel taut and have a lot of textures. It’s the midrange and highs that sound different. Nordstrom has a very neutral and sweet presentation that is very inviting. It sizzles in the top end and has superb dynamics. The other two cables cannot touch the Nordost in the highs. The Sablon shines in the midrange. It has one of the most accurate midrange sound and sounds really organic. The nordost is close but Sablon wins the midrange. The Shunyata is close to the other cables but does not sound better. So what did I choose? The sizzling dynamic Nordost or the realistic sounding Sablon?
I always believed that the highs are most important for music to sound alive and imparting the feeling of being there. But Sablon changed my opinion, it’s the midrange that gives the sensation of live music. The Sablon made the music sound more alive than other 2 cables. The difference with Nordost is subtle but definite. The other important thing especially for me was tone and timbre. I play violin and I value tone and timbre (reason for the choice of my speakers) as the most important attribute.The Sablon again wins this. Of course the price is the icing on the cake. So I have decided to buy the Sablon. Of course, in your system and for your ears, the outcome may not be the same. My recommendation is to try before you buy especially considering the price of the these cables.
Showing 14 responses by svenjosh
@ghdprentice I wholeheartedly agree with your impressions on the interconnects as i have the Odin 2 interconnects for both my analog and digital. The Nordost gave a significant (component level) upgrade in my system. It was extremely complimentary with my tube gear. (un)fortunately the differences with AES cables are not as striking as the interconnect cables. I believe the Nordost that I demoed was already broken in, not sure how many hours though. |
@nyev the Sablon and Omega were similar at the top end. Both portray natural extension and decay. If I gave the impression that these sound restrained in the upper frequencies, I am sorry but that’s not the case. Unless you hear the Nordost, you will find both Shunyata and Sablon to be perfectly natural without any roll off. As far as soundstage depth, the Sablon has an advantage especially with vocals and acoustic music as its strength is midrange. There is a subtle but distinct difference in soundstage depth and width. The Sablon is slightly more nuanced and presents a beautifully layered sound that’s addictive. |
@lalitk Thank you for the kind words about my system. There are multiple options now for low powered amplifiers, great time to be enjoying high end audio. I am using the Shunyata Denali power conditioner and cord as this gave me superior sound compared to the Shindo cord. The Shunyata excels as revealing low level details without making the sound harsh. I never tried Mr. T but hoping to do so sometime. I think there are plenty of options now for low powered amplifiers! It is an amazing time to be enjoying high end audio. |
@rudyb I am just interested in donating my hard earned money to cable companies and just looking for a reason. Hope this makes you happy. |
@jeffstrick and @rudyb Since you wanted an explanation, I will try. I do not want this thread to go away from its intended purpose so I refrained from discussing further. When we talk about digital to digital transmission, there are several varieties of transmission. I am just going to confine to PCM transmission. We all assume that it is the same 1s and 0s without understanding or realizing that there are multiple varieties of transmission of this signal. The most straightforward PCM format is designated as NRZ-L, for non return to zero level. In this format, the level directly represents the binary value: low level = 0, high level = 1 But there are many varieties of PCM NRZ-M ( non return to zero mark). 1: no change in level from last pulse. 0: level changes from last pulse. NRZ-S (non return to zero space). This is the same as NRZ-M but with the logic levels reversed. 1: level changes from last pulse. 0: no change in level from last pulse. Bi-Phase-L (bi-phase level). The level always changes in the middle of the pulse. 1: level changes from high to low. 0: level changes from low to high. Bi-Phase-M. (bi-phase mark). The level always changes at the beginning of each pulse. 1: level changes in the middle of the pulse. 0: no level change in the middle of the pulse. Bi-Phase-S (bi-phase space). This is the same as Bi-Phase-L but with the logic levels reversed. 1: no level change in middle of pulse. 0: level changes in the middle of the pulse. DBi-Phase-M (differential bi-phase mark). The level always changes in the middle of the pulse. 1: no level change at beginning of the pulse. 0: level change at beginning of the pulse. DBi-Phase-S (differential bi-phase space). This is the same as DBi-phase-M but with the logic levels reversed. 1: level change at beginning of the pulse. 0: no level change at the beginning of the pulse. It is possible for an error to occur somewhere in the transmission process. One way to increase the reliability of transmitted PCM signals is to add a checksum bit to each piece of data. For example, in an eight-bit byte, seven of the bits can be used for data and the last reserved for a checksum bit. In one method, the checksum bit is determined by parity (meaning an even or odd number). In even parity checksums, a 0 or 1 is added to make the overall number of ones (including the checksum) even. In odd parity, a 0 or 1 is added to make the overall number of ones odd. This error is signal-to-noise ratio. This error is influenced by capacity (bandwidth) and timing. This is calculated by C = R Log (1 + S/N). So there is no way any digital signal (which you describe as simple 1s and 0s) will sound the same. The cables that reduce the errors more sound better. This is a very simplistic explanation. I recommend you do more research on digital to digital transmission. You will be amazed that things like cable length can greatly determine the quality of signal. Search for hdmi and cable length needed and you will be surprised by how changing length can change what you can watch. |
Thank you @lordmelton @rudyb I am not recommending anyone buy an expensive cable. As I mentioned in my original post, let your ears decide and go with whatever is affordable by you. |
@nyev I am not sure if I can get a demo pair of Sablon interconnects since I am not in the market for interconnects. Nordost Odin 2 interconnects are one of the very best and I am very reluctant to replace them. |
@lalitk Agree 100%, Ever since I bought the Shindo, I never got any urge to upgrade. The sound is something that very few systems can even think of bettering irrespective of price. Lately I have been thinking of Aries Cerat but not to replace Shindo but as a second system. |
@bigkidz I appreciate your input. If you read the first paragraph of my post, I clarified that this pertains to my system and my ears. But I posted so everyone can get a general idea. I don’t think I can change my resistors or capacitors in my shindo preamp or amplifier to make it sound any better. I don’t have the knowledge or skill to accomplish this. Nor do I know of anyone offering this service for Shindo. So it’s a moot point. Again appreciate your input. |
@panzrwagn I started reading your post and it was fine until you said there is no noise in digital. This is absolutely not true. Take your phone out and go to a dark area and take a picture. You see noise? Why? Everything is purely in digital realm, 1s and 0s. So why is there any noise? Of course this has nothing to do with audio nor am I implying any connection. I am merely enlightening you to the concept of digital noise. I started my listening with the cheapest of cables. But I heard a difference when comparing to other cables. I just wanted to share what I heard. I did not say this was the absolute fact for everyone. I also said that if you do not hear a difference, you saved yourself a lot of money. No one is forcing anyone to buy something. The cable companies are just offering a mere invitation to consider purchasing their products. Most offer free trials. If anyone does not believe in the differences between cables or does not hear a difference, it is fine. You do not have to buy an expensive cable. Enjoy your music! |
@panzrwagn I don’t think you understand or you are trying not to. I am not interested in changing your beliefs. So you can enjoy with whatever works for you. |
@donavabdear No one here claimed the final product can be better than the original performance. Some sound engineers understand the principles of audio recording and reproduction, their recordings sound great while others who do not understand produce poor sounding recordings. There is a continual degradation in audio quality from the time of recording to the ultimate listening at your home. We are just trying to minimize the audio quality loss that occurs in our homes. That is the best we can do since we do not have any control over prior processes. So to answer to your question, there no way to get better sound than original but we strive to preserve what we can in the final part of audio reproduction. |
@panzrwagn @donavabdear You are amazing guys who showed your profound intelligence in electronics and digital. Now that you have wowed us with your knowledge, maybe it’s time to contribute this same amazingness in other threads too so everyone can be enlightened! |