Advice on choosing speakers

Rachel said: "Speakers like Kharmas, Avalons and Veritys are more coherent and more transparent, but they offer no speaker anywhere near these price points that can really do rock."

He is right about many of his comments. I had a pair of Kharma's and I think they are very worthy of consideration. The Ceramique 1.0 can be had in the $6,000 range and are worth the money.

The Revels with the right componants can be amazing. I heard them with Mark Levinson gear, and they had the most liquid midrange I have ever heard.

The B&W speakers are not favorites of mine. I have heard many different models, but not one I would buy.

Donbellphd is unwise in making a comment such as he did. Regardless of the style/styles of music a person prefers they want it reproduced in the best possible manner.

If it were me, I would buy a pair of ATC scm50 asl. I have had a fondness for active speakers for a while now. FWIW

Donbellphd: what are you missing?

Well, first, the budget proposed by the author of the thread ("I do not have a specific budget, but let's say less than 10K used"). I proposed a $5k and a $10k alternative.

Second, rock music is quite hard to reproduce convincingly because it is supposed to be played back at high volume -- most speakers compress when asked to reproduce big orchestral crescendos or rock and roll at live levels. There are very few speakers at any price that can get you near the decibel levels encountered with a live rock performance in a club or other public venue. It so happens that the Mahlers and Salons are such speakers (and they have finesse, which the author of the thread also wrote was important to him, and which he won't get in a speaker that also has great dynamics without spending some money).

Finally, you are confusing distortion in the performance and distortion produced by speakers that lack dynamic headroom and are pushed too hard. The former is part of a rock performance and is captured on the recording, generally resulting from the use of tube guitar amps (and in the early days of rock, primitive recording equipment that compressed when faced with the sound pressure levels of rock -- this is audible on, for example, a lot of blues recordings (Elmore James) and some of the early Stones albums), and requires a top-quality speaker to reproduce accurately. As for the latter, it is just a speaker lacking dynamic headroom or lacking proper amplification that is being overdriven, which screws up any kind of music, including rock.

In short, it is difficult (I would even say extremely difficult) to find a speaker in his price range that can really do rock and that has finesse (and that are aesthetically pleasing and built by companies that back their products, which were the other features he seeks).

Matt:

Have you considered Klipsch at all? The horn-loaded designs of Klipsch produce an effortless, open and spacious "wall of sound" with very little power (tubes treat these speakers very well). I own five different varieties of Klipsch HERITAGE (meaning, no longer in production) speakers, and am extremely pleased with their detail, response, openness, and ability to produce huge volumes of sound, as well as excellent bass reponse. Do some research on the Klipschorn, LaScala, Cornwall, and Forte lines.

Good luck in your quest!!

Chris

For Rock and acoustics in your used price range I recommend auditioning the McIntosh XRT-28s... They go for 18K+ new, but can be had around 9K used.

I listened to these guys at great length while on vacation late last year, and they impressed me to no end... They are the first speaker at their price point that I can honestly say was worth every penny (even new).

Midrange on the XRT-28s was first-rate, with vocals coming through crystal clear... Bass was tight and punchy (having the capability to go down to a real 18 hz when called for (which is *extremely* rare)), and highs were non-fatiguing... The soundstage on these guys was absolutely huge, and so was the sweet spot. My only minor gripe was the wood veneer trim was kind of cheap looking (especially for an 18K pair of speakers), but with the sound I heard, I couldn't care...

Electronics used were all solid state McIntosh (and the XRT-28s demand plenty of high quality watts to sound their best).

---Dave

the review pairs. They have all the prerequisites you're asking for and more. I've heard B&W speakers. It's no contest between those and the VMPS per dollar. The ribbon panels are lightning quick and smooth. They simply make most other speaker sound like speakers. There are others like the Von Schweikerts that may work for you too.