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Adjusting speaker positioning. What, if anything, to expect?


I am going to adjust my Magico A3’s positioning a little bit to try to optimize their performance and the listening experience. Due to the logistics of the room they’re in, there’s only a limited amount I can move them. I’ll describe the room and what I can do within those limitations. I’m wondering what improvement I might be able to achieve with adjusting positioning.

The room is approximately 14’ x 22’. There is a high vaulted ceiling. about 15’ at it’s peak centered in the room on its horizontal axis. Picture how kindergarten child draws a house. That’s the shape of a cross section of the room and vaulted ceiling.. The speakers are located about 8’ apart centered on the long wall. The front of the A3’s are only out 22" from the wall, the rear of the speakers only 9" from the wall. That can’t be helped. The prime listening position is on a couch about 10’ out from and facing the same wall, also centered. The components are on shelves centered and built into the same long wall the speakers are on. There are some other furnishings, and books above built-in cabinets, line most of the other three walls.

I can move the speakers about a foot farther apart or closer together, and I can change their toe-in. What changes, if any, might I be expecting or hope to achieve moving the speakers within these limited parameters? Could the sound-stage be affected? I’m not sure what the sound-stage should be like anyway. Should it extend to the left or right outside the speakers, or be mainly between the speakers? Right now depending on the recording the vocals and instruments are usually between or no further apart than the actual speakers. Could the treble, midrange, or bass response be augmented or diminished depending on positioning? Are there any other factors that may be affected by positioning alone? Thank you for any guidance and please feel free to ask any questions. Thanks,

Mike
skyscraper

Showing 10 responses by geoffkait

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
And another thing. Another reason the laser method is not such a good one is that all speakers have different radiation patterns. Combine different radiation patterns with different room geometries and you have a recipe for disaster. That’s why the out-of-phase (read polarity) track is the ONLY perfect way to find the absolute best speaker positions. No matter what shape you’re in regarding room geometry, acoustic treatments, other tweaks like isolation, AND radiation pattern of your speakers the out-of-phase track gives you the best you can do under current conditions.

NOTE - the out-of-phase track ALSO is the KEY 🔑 to finding the 🔜 ideal locations 🔙 for future room and current acoustics treatments. As I mentioned already, in the beginning when first starting out with the XLO Test CD you will almost certainly have a hard time getting the sound to “come from all around the room with no particular direction.” But I never promised you a rose garden. 🌹 🌹 🌹
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Am I high right now? 😳
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
The laser method is not nearly as good as the XLO Test CD method. How do I know? Because the XLO Test CD will find the NEW absolute best speaker locations after adding room acoustics devices or other tweaks to the room. Whereas the laser method cannot account for new additions to the system or system tweaks. In fact the laser method doesn’t ever account for room treatment or tweaks. Hel-ooo! It’s not (rpt not) a static situation with the speaker locations. You do NOT want your speakers locked in place.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
You don’t buy from Amazon? What are you, a commie? 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
The best deal on XLO Test CD is actually on Amazon, $19.99 + free shipping. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
millercarbon, your panties are too tight. 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
The XLO TEST CD is not to be confused with Sheffield. This what it looks like,

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192758379171

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
There are a lot of variables. You can say that again, Boo Boo! That’s why people need to use the out-of-phase track method. Because that method ELIMINATES most of the variables and is guaranteed to ALWAYS find the ABSOLUTE BEST speaker positions. Hel-loo! That means it IS a set rule, as you say. It’s all the other methods that are not set rules. I guess I must not have been clear the other fifty times I described this method. 😃 Thick as a brick. 🧱 Caveate: Most rooms are in such bad shape acoustically that many people will have difficulty hearing the “sound coming from all around you” with the system in reverse polarity. It takes a lot of effort before that happens. As Bob Dylan says at the end of his records, good luck to everyone. I never said it was going to be easy. That’s why they call it a hobby. 🤗 Yes, I know, your system sounds fabulous! 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

mijostyn
Geoffkait, you automatically adjust phase when you listen for the image. Adjusting phase is only important when you have separate drivers such as subwoofers. Think about that. You can move your head side to side and find the exact spot where two speakers are in phase. It is where the image snaps into focus. This of course is the listening position. Phasing subwoofers is certainly more complicated and the best way to do this is by measuring arrival times which requires a microphone and a computer set up for impulse testing.

>>>>I’m pretty sure we’re not on the same page. I don’t think we’re even looking at the same book. 😬 Oh, it’s a long way to Tipperary. 🤗
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
As I oft counsel the method of moving speakers a little one way or the other and listening each time you move them is far from ideal and can only result in finding local maximum speaker positions, at best. You cannot find the absolute best positions for both speakers that way. The only way to find the absolute best positions for any speakers in any room, regardless of room treatments and regardless of the rest of the system, is to use the speaker set-up track on the XLO Test CD or similar test CD. It’s the out-of-phase track. When you get the most diffuse sound using the out-of-phase track you will get the most focused and correct sound when the system is in phase. Even as your system evolves the speaker set-up track can be used again to establish new best speaker positions. Trying to find the absolute best speaker positions by trial and error is like trying to solve x simultaneous equations in x + n unknowns.
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