Ecruz
Having seen the price for the big ACTS.. I should think being impressed ought to happen when first demoed.
I get the imp from many such reviews, save those on the Quad and Adam monitors, some self powered units have stupendous atack capabilities.
Your note on the presentation not being piercing or painful, is helpful. The big ACTS though, or the big Meridians, etc. are way beyond this campers campfire.
I too heard a pretty nice setup last night.. ML Sumits, Esoteric player, powered by Pass Labs, top pre, and a pr of xa 160.5, and 'The One' cabling. Well treated... maybe too well, but in all a very nice setting, sound,and great gear.... and again, that ain't happening for me without a mask and a gun, or getting all six numbers exactly ringht some weekend.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Shadorne
Thanks for the insights. That list should help a lot to further a gbit of leg work.
I've thought about these for a while... active units that is... and felt they had just loads of obstacles to contend with in order to recreate what non active speakers do... but it would appear their makers ahve figured out how to overcome these barriers.
It's an interesting proposal... I suspect too these reproducers are not difficut to remove the active parts if there is any failure?
...and it seems to me to stand to reason , the active speakers like electrostats get plugged into AC current too.
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Thanks folks... very much.
Again... are active speakers generally speaking, of modular design so if amps fail the whole enclosure doesn't have to ship?
Were I to go down this lane I'm figuring 5K or so will be the bullet I'll use to bring down the prey.
Doug
Yeah, I'm at another crossroad. For me these come up infrequently... years vs months for major changes.
While I've been pondering new power amps, and want a new color or design for my main speakers, the notion came to me to consider something I've not yet given much attention... and have scant little info and zip experience with.
Albeit, I'm not actually thinking of a Hybrid speaker, nor purely active speaker per se as the solution. I'm simply considering as amny angles on their path as I can imagine.
So far, as I'm unlikely to doing a live audition, I'm going to cling to the idea that speakers (in general) perform on various levels. Preowned, at $5K +/- some, should retail for 9-11K.... and at 10K I've not heard a dog speaker yet.
In fact, I'll go a bit further and say I've heard way more expensive ones of late and I'll attrivute the experienced sound as more the setup than the speakers. The waht's up front section IMHO always matters more... at least to me.
It continues to get proven time and again.
Consequently, with what I feel is a top tier tube preamp on hand, active speakers appear a viable solution, and a quicker less involved, and simpler path to solving my current audio dissatisfaction and distress. AS well, one which might prove a less troublesome arrangment to maintain too. |
Spiritualized
Thanks much... I did... how come few if any of these folks seldom post prices?
Isn't the 10K input impeadance of the largest portion of active loudspeakers as much a concern as would be the other usual attributes of speakers?
10K input imp is quite low and could account for a poor match between an active preamp and these active monitors... even though the output imp of mine is below 400 i THINK.. AND I BELIEVE AT 1K.
Any thoughts here on the practical application of active line stage pre and active speakers with 10K input imps?
I tossed this about while entertaining thoughts on a new amp (s), forgoing those whose imp were 10K, and seeking ones with 50K or higher instead... to be safe.... er.
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Shadorne
You keep bringing up good points and that’s outstanding. Thanks.
I was wondering about that dedicated monitor application too, and the environment it usually resides within. Nominally a well treated not too distant, at times near field setting. One wherein critical listening is the norm and not the option.
Rightly so, my own application is going to be a far more contrasting situation… albeit, I feel as always, Transparency and naturalness are among the top keys for me when deciding on loudspeakers…. That and the fact they disappear as point sources, more often than not.
My music genre preffs demand they have some jump factor to them as well as I dig big band blues, jazz, and the now and then Rock aria, Reggae remix, or dance music…. Pop or electronica.
Another note that arises here is the distinction from ‘Active loudspeakers’ being further defined by either Active self powered, or merely active x overed loudspeakers.
In my uninitiated mind, Active loudspeakers meant as I’ve been relaying here, as both fully powered (w/amps) and actively x-overed networks. Such as the top option of the review Doug posted in this thread on the Whispers latest iteration and their list of outfitting choices. Digital power, precise control of the x over via software, and choices for just seeking out one’s own Goldilocks amp or contouring the speakers x over and on board power supply to function with the Goldilocks fuel cell you already own.
That last bit is fascinating, yet mere vapor ware for myself. The DSW speakers have way too much ‘can’taffordium’ in their make up to be even a consideration. Just as the top Meridians, aTCs, and so forth.
‘Course if all that could manifest itself in a $5-6K preowned package… well that could oughta might work, as I say when the English teacher ain’t lookin’.
Doug
Thanks for the notes, and the link to your uh, novelette on Legacy’s new notion on musical re-creation in the home. Insiteful and a good read, not to mention educational and well, somewhat mind boggling considering all the choices they provide the owner.
I’ve only heard the Focus. Once. Powered by a Denon receiver and fed by a HK CDP…. and yep.. at a dealers showroom as listed on the Legacy wwebpage. Around the Sunburn State, it seems with many makers, building contractors are the ‘often’ choice for an authorized dealership.
Trust me… having seen many such offices/demo/experiences… they are building contractors that just happen to have maybe, something decent around the shop… now and then. Normally they don’t and it can be ordered.
I’m certain I did not hear the focus in anything close to a decent setup, or at anything nearing it’s best sound.
Anytime you’d care to adopt me and send along a set of those active, powered, DSWs… you can put me on your dependants list with the IRS…. Legally, that is.
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Some or much of my own confusion rests in the terminology being used I suspect.
I’m understanding so far, an active speaker may or may not have it’s own power cell to fuel the speakers with, and that active units pre-determine the optimum range for it’s drivers by filtering what portion of the bandwidth gets amplified by which amp for what driver!?
Fine. No prob there.
Apparently these ‘filters’ (adjustable or fixed, and at whatever total amounts of available power/watts) are actually not affecting the signal integrity, but allowing only bits of it to be applied to which ever transducer (s), so these filters are brick wall openings for certain frequencies.
Holes in the dam, huh?
What then, creates such an inoccuous non interfering slicing and dicing of the signal so the intended amp see’s only it’s portion.
What is the electronic dam with holes in it?
Or, in other words, who or what is the traffic cop doing all the directing of the audio signal, to these anxiously awaiting amps and drivers?
I’m having a hard time discerning any diffs from filters used in active x overs, and passive x overs… apart from this one thing.
All the freqs of the signal pass into the passive x over… getting shunted out here and there as they arrive, perhaps with some bleeding over too in areas they were not intended to land.
OK.. but something must stand in the way of the signal at some point to direct which part of it goes where and IMHO.. that sure seems a x over to me, more than a filter….
UNLESS… each amp is built with limits of bandwidth operation… that would do it too, I suppose.
Still the signal can and will be affected by the impedance of the incoming device feeding it/them… all of which changes with frequency and the number of amps the source or preamp has to feed/see.
Or am I way off with this assessment?
The big positive as in the Legacy model was the flexibility in the software which has some end user adjustment/flexibility.
Shaterne
Is the dollar to performance steps in active x over and/or self powered speakers about that of passive ones?
Does your 6K active speaker buying buck get you more speaker than it would in passives?
Thanks…
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Marty
Good stuff... great points.
I noticed a lot of what you posted just now by simply looking into the PMC line up and a couple others, more closely. Aluminum cabinets for rigidity and heat sink collaboration… and a more industrial esthetic.
Flexibility too is the facet which increases the value, or bang for buck aspect of any device.... eg., Legacy DSW's, Doug mixed into the thread earlier. Now that is indeed a flexible design, once appointed properly. Had I that sort of green, I'd already have dialed up Legacy... and worried about my room dimensions later.
However, I am getting the feeling here, with active (self contained) speakers, many comparisons and bang for buck notions will hinder an honest approach to acquiring some great floorstanders in my case. Albeit too, great floorstanders, or even above the cut sorts might be past my grasp. I'd want units now that can dip down to a flat 30 or below, With authority and ease. Grace and honesty too when called for and especially in the top end.
I'd like very much, going forward, to make this next move a step up... not a sideways one.
So if there is a Sonata III out there in active loudspeakers with better performance, and affordable, I'm in... otherwise, I'm gonna just pinball my way around till something else grabs me I suppose. |
Thanks Bob… and you too Marty
Ever how it shakes out, be the x overs in front of the amps, behind the amps, or under the couch, it’s all fine by me… I’ll not allow any previous bias to invade or affect my choice of speakers. More factors exist in that area which clutter it up already. Size, range, Cost, voice, Esthetic, and flexibility with interfaces, if I go the Active speaker route which really does intrigue me right now. In fact I’m going to make every effort to do just that.
It should solve a couple issues I'm facing currently.... and when all is said and done, and we're sitting in front of the speakers with the lights off and listening to some of our fav tracks, albums, or discs, it's about the sound right then and there... not how much $$$ is in the ear candy erecter set, not the topologies, designs, how many components, drivers, etc., it's all about toe tapping and possum grins and not wanting to turn it off.
For me... that's always the goal... how ya get there is of far less consequence.
Show me a better mouse trap and I'll show you a smarter mouse. What the Hell does that mean? Who cares.It is about the sound. 3wpc or 1,000wpc. 1 driver, or 15. Who cares?
In the dark as someone said centuries ago, it's all the same... is the sound making me happy?
In the voicing area I’m gonna count on something explicitly revealatory, but with some refinement or ease which isn’t necessarily to be construed as warmth. I get the impression, things like laid back, warmth and euphony, simply isn’t on the menu going with active units. That’s fine too.
If they can be honest without being overly critical, and do a great vanishing act, while conveying an involving musical re-creation, I’m ALL IN FOR A PAIR!
I noticed from checking out reviews here and there, some models have come to mind from KRK, ATC, and as soon as I decode the PMC lineup identification process, maybe something from them… and there’s Meridain Meridian but I don’t envision anything arriving here from them too likely anytime soon.
The thoughts on use of a very nice near full range two way (40hz - 20KHz >) or three way stand mount also looks like a pretty good idea. I’ve found out repeatedly, few full range speakers are indeed full range. Very few.
Subs ain’t that difficult to integrate. Plus I’m not keen on having a dominating presence in speakerage staring at me daily.
I’m not giddy about a commercial look either. But with the lights off, who’ll know?
The Exposé floor standers and the VXT 8's just under it, as well as the aTC 50 ASL, and a couple others are attractive. Hell, Best buy carries the KRK line. Wonder what Sam Ash carries?
Naturally, any insights from current owners of other active speakers are more than welcome.
Thank you. |
Super. Thanks Shaterne.
That pretty much settles it for me then.
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Life itself is an education... and it's an education on steroids around here with the pros that knows.... Thanks.
I'm still gonna amble on over to the big music store as I'm seeking a keyboard too... and check out the various active uints on display to be sure or get my toes wet. Although I feel given my preffs and budget Actives working well and improving upon what I have already is going to be quite the expensive task.. ala the ATC 50 on here now for $9K! And it might not be suitable at the 8ft + > 16ft distances.
The truly immense thing for me... and now others, is more defined info on the topic sits in the archives, and that's always a boon to anyone as the bulk of info here isn't on particular current models but on applications and technology behind the active loudspeakers camp. Well, more than I've read so far personally. It's been enlightening... and I may yet stumble onto something that floats my boat for an upscale office rig... which ain't gonna take a whole lot to do. Should be fun though and reduce the sense of rush and immediacy I have with desiring a bigger change in my main outfit.
thanks much... naturally, any thoughts or experiences ongoing in the active x over powered loudspeaker (pro - studio) sphere are way more than welcome to further the data here.
You guys are all great thanks.
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Ojgalli >> Active x/o actually solves loads of problems. What's the logic (or benefit) of taking the amplified signal and dumping it into yet another circuit?
But then, isn't that what must happen for any speaker to make noise? Either the X over comes in advance of the power amps, or afterwards?
Ojgalli >> Passive is for the plug-n-play crowd.
Or perhaps in truth… plug & plug & plug & play, and plug in another and play, and plug in another and play… et all… until one finds the ‘Goldilocks amp’, for their passive speakers.
True plug & play loudspeakers must therefore be those fully active speakers. Nothing could be more plug and play… aside from the new owner getting longer Ics. To connect up with., from their source or preamp… in my case it’s a preamp, by choice to the transducers signal input.
Just the sheer number of variables becomes truncated merely by inserting the Active units into the equaition. No speaker cables required. No secondary set of power cables if mono blocks were in use previously.
Some I reaed about online even have a USB input and no need for ICs from preamp to amp, or here… from preamp to speakers… and no need for a preamp then either!... merely a Personal Confuser or digital music server!... as in some of the Meridians.
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OK Bob.. Thanks…
I’ll cruise by Sound on Sound and have a look around.
Marty
Makes sense to me, as that definition coincides with my critical thinker. Active meaning all 3 sides of the triangle are in play… filtering, amplification, and drivers in one container… digitally fed with on board dAC or not.
But I think I get it.
The active feature is confining the amps field of operation for the prescribed driver as to optimize the drivers performance. Many have on board power for one or more drivers, and MAY offer a passive option to bypass these items… or not.
A fair amount of active speakers are fully self contained, requiring no additional power.
Shaterne
There really is no contest. Active is just a far better way to skin the cat of distributing the audio signal between different transducers.
This could be very right.
Do you feel active units present a better value for one’s speaker buying buck?
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Shadorne
Thanks... I get the 10:1 ratio on input to output imp. Though as frequency rises, so does it affect the output imp, and as well, if another device such as a sub is being simultaneously by the same line stage preamp, some severe increases in output imp arise or present themselves.
But, it's cool... I'll lug my pre over to the music store and plug it in if I find any units there which interest me.
How do you control the volume of your ATCs... or other active speakers?
and.. If a speaker s is designed for 'near field' use & operation, would it therrefore be unsuitable for any other non near field listening?
I'm hearing 'nearfield' designs (3-5ft or 6ft, max) simply will not do in normal audiophile 8ft to > situations.
Apparently, the field in near field, needs a bit more definition. Is nearfield listening taking place at 3-5ft in studios?
I'm about 7-10ft back from my speaks. usually about 8>, depending on how reclined I am at the time.
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