In my system (not posted on the 'gon), the Oval 9 was warmer--which may, or, may not be a good thing, depending. And it had more pronounced bass. It may go deeper, too. But, at the time, my system died at about 45HZ, so I don't know.
The Satori was better in every other may imaginable, so why list them all? |
So it sounds like the Oval 9 is great for bass but
looses out to the Satori in all other aspects.
From with I would assume the Satori sounds more "alive"
and tuneful...?
|
Yes. And more holographic with a much bigger sound stage and greater clarity. |
Satori - according to reviews has a little fuller lower midrange. It was perfect for my lean class D amp. Bass is strong and well controlled. |
I have have Adagios breaking in and the bass seems
a little leaner than what I am used to.
I ordered some Analysis Plus Oval 9s based on the
above comments. I want to make the bass stronger
and I don't want to give up any dynamic impact.
And I want to impart as much warmth as possible.
Should I try Satori (or even the Hologram)also or do
the Ovals 9s win on all 3 qualities that I need more of:
Bass, Dynamics, Warmth...??
I'd rather prevent buying and reselling if the cables
are have no chance of furthering these 3 qualities over
the oval 9s. |
Tom,
I've had my Adagios for almost 2 years and have used the Oval 9s for most of that time with very pleasing results. The bass is very well presented while being quite tight. They are excellent cables in their price range.
However, over the past year I converted all of my IC's to single crystal copper cables. I definitely liked the improved resolution they imparted while extending both ends of the frequency spectrum. Imaging, soundstage and particularly the smoothness of the sound (organic quality?) was geatly enhanced over my various copper and copper/silver IC's.
Those improvements led me to try the OCC copper AZ Santori. They provided the same type of sound improvement the IC changes did, only to a much greater extent. I guess the speaker cables have a greater impact on the sound then the IC's, at least in my limited experience. I don't see myself returning to non-single crystal copper. But I have also purchased the relatively inexpensive Belkin 14 gauge OCC copper speaker cables just to see how they would stack-up. I am amazed at how good they too sound! They are almost as good as the Santori(maybe not quite as powerful in the bass due to their lighter gauge). They exhibit the same great sound characteristics that I belive is inherent with single crystal copper. My suggestion would be to go with the OCC cables. But the prudent thing to do would be to compare the two and make up your own mind. You can get an 8' Belkin pair delivered for less about $55 via Amazon - maybe less elswhere.
Regards,
John |
Nanotweeter:
What OCC ICs did you upgrade to?
I just ordered Analysis Plus Solo Crystal XLR ICs
to complement the Analysis Plus Oval 9s. I also
ordered the Acoustic Zen Tsunami Powercord which
is zero crystal copper like the AP Solo Crystal XLRs.
So back to the Oval 9 vs Satori.. In you opinion,
which one had more bass?
which one was more dynamic?
which one was warmer sounding overall?
I know there are so many other qualities that make up
a good speaker cable but the above 3 are my priorities
right now..
Thanks! |
Tom,
I have both balanced and rca PS audio transcendence, Belkin PureAV (don't laugh - they sound great) and AZ Wow and Matrix Reference II rca's.
The Oval 9 bass is about on par with the Satori but fatter and not as clean. In my system the Satori is not as warm as the Oval 9, but I don't need any more warmth. I run CD's from a Marantz SA-11S1 balanced to a PLC Sonic Euphoria to my current favorite amp the RWA 30.2. For Vinyl its a Music Hall 5.1 with stock Grado MM and Bellari single tube phono preamp. The Satori provides a good measure of transparency that enhances the presentation without any upper end grain or harshness. The Satori also wins the dynamics competition. But the difference is not an order of magnitude, just an incremental improvement in most every regard.
Please let me know how you like your Solo Crystal Oval and how it compares to your other IC's. What components are in your system?
Within the next few months I'll pick up a pair of the AP SCO speaker cables to compare to the Satori to hear if there is much of a difference.
Regards,
John |
My system is a Krell 400xi & Krell DVD showcase.
I also have a Meridian G98AH but like the Krell DVD showcase
more so for all the detail it pulls out of a disk.. Since I have
Krell, I need some warm cables.. That's why I went for the
Oval 9 first since you said they were warmer.
I was told the AP Oval 8 Solo Crystal is THE cable to buy
but it is 4 times the cost of the oval 9s..
How do you like the "WOW" cable? I hear that's a nice
warm punchy cable..
|
Tom,
Many moons ago I had the AZ Wow interconnect in my system and realized that after comparing it to the next grade up, Reference Matrix, the Matrix had me spoiled. If you are looking for warmth, find a used pair of the original AZ Reference Matrix. They later came out with a more neutral Mark II version. But the original Matrix had a unique warm glow to the sound that would possibly match well with a bright or lean component. It worked wonderful with some Rotel components I had at the time. There are a few other manufacturers who use some gold in their interconnects that I have read have a nice warmth to their sound. Gold has a tendency to lean to the warm side. A couple come to mind that I haven't heard, Kool Kable Silkworm and Gabriel Gold. I did have a Stealth PGS interconnect( since discontinued, but they still come up used from time to time) and it had a very alive, "Golden" burnished sound to it that was, although colored, very mesmerizing and musical. Have fun experimenting and fine-tuning your system. |
I owned both. Now I'm using AZ Hologram II. Satori is much better cable then AP 9. Air, transparency, detail etc. AP is a bit heavy on bass, fat bass. AZ Satori has much better tonal balance.
I have AZ Silver Reference IC also. Better then more expensive Siltech.
AZ Tsunami not so good. I bought Lessloss when it cost 350$, way better then Tsunami. Also TG Audio PC better then Tsunami but a bit more expensive. |
I use Satori Shotgun on my main system
Matrix II and Straight Wire Crescendo - very engaging ic
(don't waste your time with the wow cable)
Because I loved their interconnects so much, I demo'd Straight Wire Crescendo bi wire in my system and was shocked as it was sluggish and too warm and bloated in the mid bass
back to my Satori Shotgun with it's detail, pinpoint imaging and great tonal characteristics!
on my HT setup
I use AZ Hologram (not bi-wired)for front and center channel
both set ups employ Salk speakers which are fabulous and show every nuance or shortcoming of the music and up chain equipment and wires |
Audiotomb,
You might want to consider trying a Von Gaylord Chinchilla interconnect in your system. They work wonderfully with the AZ Satori. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
http://iar-80.com/page90.html
|
I have finally come to the realization that it is time for me to upgrade my speaker cables. Since the late 1990's, I have been using the same AUDIOQUEST Crystal Hyperlitz Bi-Wire Speaker Cables for my main speakers, Vandersteen Model 3's. While never being convinced that these cables could convey the best bass response these speakers are capable of, I remain impressed by other facets of their sonic blueprint. Nevertheless, I feel that I can put it off no longer; it is my opinion that my system will sound significantly better if I were to upgrade my speaker cables. Perhaps I am wrong.
At this point, I seek your comments and suggestions.
After doing some browsing on various audio websites, I feel that the ANALYSIS PLUS Oval 8 Solo Crystal or AUDIO ZEN Satori Shotgun speaker cables would be a good match for my system. It is very possible that these cables are too good for my system but unfortunately, I do not have an inexhaustible supply of money to really "do it right".
Please give me suggestions regarding the various ANALYSIS PLUS and AUDIO ZEN cables. I am also considering KIMBER (12TC) or (8TC) and SYNERGISTIC RESEARCH cables. I suspect I will continue to use Bi-Wire speaker cables although I would like your opinion on that issue as well.
My Equipment:
Krell KRC-3 preamp
Ayre V-6xe (L-R & Center channel amplifiers)
Benchmark DAC-1
B&K Reference 50 (SS Processor)
B&K Ex-442m (Rear speaker amplifiers)
Oppo-83SE (DVD, CD)
Cardas Reference IC's
Audio Zen Silver Reference II IC's
Auido Zen WOW IC's
Kimber KS-1011 IC's
Vandersteen Model 3
Vandersteen Model 1b
Thanks,
|
Regarding my old Vandersteen Model 3 speakers, I am close to opting on a custom bi-wire cable configuration of (Kimber 12TC - for the bottom end) and (Kimber 8TC - for the high). However, ... with a very limited budget doubt tends to linger in the back of my mind, could I get more "bang for the buck" by giving up entirely on the notion of bi-wiring?
I could use the money I have for this project on a single pair of higher quality cables rather than incurring the added expense of two sets of cables per side, as in the bi-wire configuration. Are the sonic benefits of bi-wiring worth the added expense for the Vandersteen Model 3 speakers?
Perhaps a single pair of say Analysis Plus Oval 9s or AZ Satori speaker cables would deliver superior sound when compared with, shall we say lesser quality bi-wired speaker cables.
Let me know your thoughts on this issue and if you have other speaker cable recommendations, configuration options and/or specific manufacturers that I should consider. The manufacturers I have looked at thus far are (Kimber Kable, Anti-Cables, Synergistic Research, Analysis Plus, and Acoustic Zen).
I did receive the following advice regarding the Acoustic Zen speaker cables:
"Acoustic Zen does make some fine cables, but should not be on the short list for Vandersteen's. They tend to be just a bit unfocused and soft in the highs, and a bit pitch indefinite in the bass."
This came from a retailer so I am not sure how much credence to give it. Do you concur with this assessment? I use Acoustic Zen interconnects and digital cables extensively in my system and I love them. I very much appreciate your valued input. |
I found that the new Analysis Plus Oval 9 Black Mesh speaker cables on balance overall bested my Acoustic Zen Satori in my system. In the midrange, the Oval 9 sounded a little richer and warmer and slightly more natural and organic to me. Both have impressive bass, and I am not sure which win's out there.
As you all probably know, there is always a trade off. The Oval 9 lost just a little shimmer in the highs compared to the Satori which overall sounded slightly more alive. However, the Oval nine synergistically complemented my Zu Druid speakers (which needed a little more midrange warmth in my system) quit well.
The best cable of course, is the one that balances the sound in your system just right, and the Satori is still one of best cables around and may sound better in other systems. The Satori to me sounded a smidge warmer than the fast slightly hard sounding Anti-Cable and both the Oval 9 and Satori sound much more open than some lower rung MIT cable I once owned that seemed to deaden the sound.
A friend who also owns ultra expensive Transparent Ultra XL cables feels that the newer Oval 9 comes very close to sounding as good as them, and that the higher cost of the transparent, to him anyway, doesn't justify the slight increase in performance. |
By the way, my friend with the Transparent Ultra XL cables said he thought they were ever so slightly warmer and more "Transparent" than the Analysis Plus Black Oval 9. To me, that is not necessarily a good thing for my system, as the Oval 9 cabes already seem to blend just right synergistically although I wouldn't know for sure if the Transparent cables would be better or worse for me until I hear them in my system.
For the record, it seems in general within a broad range of quality components, that the most important factor for me anyway to call a component 'better' is how a component sonically and synergistically balances out the net sound of my system - and the quality of the components itself is secondary. After all, lemonade that is sour (poor net sound), will still be sour even with the best lemons (best components).
However, having the proper sonic balance with a higher quality component is a wonderful thing. For this reason though, I am very wary when someone says something is better without qualilfying the components that it works with, or better yet, providing a comparison of how the sound of the component compared with others, and in what relative direction it moved the sound.
|
To qualify a prior statement, when I said the Oval 9 had slightly less shimmer than the Satori, I was not implying that the Oval nine lacked shimmer. They have plenty of that. The highs with the oval nine not only sounded open and nicely detailed to me, they seemed to cast an overall more natural sounding balance in the highs - which in my system which needed just a little more warmth, sounded more right to me than the Satori. I strongly suspect, that someone wanting a little more openness, detail and natural shimmer from a system whose net sound is a little too warm, may prefer the extra sparkle from the wonderful and warm sounding Acoustic Zen Satori speaker cables.
Also, when my friend with the Transparent Cables told me that he felt that were slightly warmer and more transparent yet than the Oval Nine, he meant "better" by a very small margin. He also has slightly bright speakers ("Onix Reference Floor Standers), so to him, naturally a little warmer means a little better. As mentioned, he felt that such a small improvement in sound did not justify the price difference between the Oval 9 and the Transparent. |
Last commentary, these are Apple and Orange speaker cables. Both good, both bring a slightly different sonic pallet to the table.
I listened again to the AZ Satori and Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9, and the Zen Satori seem to be a little more dynamic, with slightly more tonal information (Diana Kralls voice had a little etch, sounded a little more like her), particularly in the upper mids. The Oval 9 sounded like they are a little smoother and warmer, slightly blacker background, as mentioned, good shimmer, just a touch less than the Satori. The Satori, however, are also a warm speaker cable, just not quit as much as the Oval Nine.
Again, Apples and Oranges and I think the better is probably the one which balances the sound of your system best. If you think that you are slightly lean, the Oval 9 may be best, otherwise, for a little more sparkle while maintaining great warmth and perhaps slightly more tonal accuracy and information, the Satori may be better. |
