What is the class A output? how big is your room? Honestly, I would say no on the class A only unless it is a huge amp. These speakers really do need a lot of power and anyone telling you that they sound great on their 30 watt tube amp has not heard what they can do with real power. I know there is more to power than watts but I would say that you'll need 150w to make them work in anything other than a shoebox... 300w to make them sing and 500 to make them truly dynamic. Hope that helps.
I am using the boulder 1060 with mine but have used the boulder integrated and some other smaller amps. |
I have a 70 watt@4ohms tube integrated (Octave V70SE) running class A/B driving my C1's. The power is fine. I replaced my Bryston B100 rated at 180 watt@4ohms. The Octave just crushes the Bryston in power - control and dynamics. Even though the C1's do sound their best at higher listening levels the Octave brought me much more pleasure listening at low to mid levels which is my normal listening levels. What I'm trying to say is you really to listen for yourself and don't get too caught up in watts. I know that doesn't answer your question regarding class A vs class A/B. |
C1 Technical Specifications:
Sensitivity 85 dB (2,83 V/1 m)
IEC Power Handling 170 W
Impedance 4 Ohms
Frequency Response 45 Hz 22 kHz (± 3 dB)
Box Principle 2-way bass-reflex
Crossover Frequency 1800 Hz
Weight 10.9 kg
Dimensions (W x H x D)
200 x 445 x 430 mm
7.9 x 17.5 x 16.9"
E-550 technical specifications
●Continuous Average Output Power (both channels driven, 20 ~ 20,000 Hz)
150 watts per channel into 1 ohm (✽)
120 watts per channel into 2 ohms
60 watts per channel into 4 ohms
40 watts per channel into 6 ohms
30 watts per channel into 8 ohms
Note: Ratings marked ✽ are for music signals only.
●Total Harmonic Distortion (both channels driven, 20~20,000 Hz)
0.05% with 2-ohm load
0.02% with 4 to 16-ohm load
●Intermodulation Distortion 0.01%
●Frequency Response HIGH LEVEL INPUT/POWER INPUT
For rated continuous average output: 20 ~ 20,000 Hz +0, 0.2 dB
For 1 watt output: 2 ~ 150,000 Hz +0, 3.0 dB
●Damping Factor 140 (with 8-ohm load, 50 Hz)
●Input Sensitivity, Input Impedance
●Output Voltage, Output Impedance PRE OUTPUT: 0.617 V, 50 ohms
(at rated continuous average output)
●Gain HIGH LEVEL INPUT ➞ PRE OUTPUT: 18 dB
POWER INPUT ➞ OUTPUT: 28 dB
●Tone Controls Turnover frequency and adjustment range
BASS: 300 Hz ±10 dB (50 Hz)
TREBLE: 3 kHz ±10 dB (20 kHz)
●Loudness Compensation +6 dB (100 Hz)
●Attenuator 20 dB
●Signal-to-Noise Ratio
●Power Level Meters Logarithmic compression, peak reading meters
Output dB/% scale
●Load Impedance 2 ~ 16 ohms
●Stereo Headphones Suitable impedance: 8 ~ 100 ohms
●Power Requirements AC 120 V/230 V (Voltage as indicated on rear panel) 50/60 Hz
●Power Consumption 200 watts idle, 300 watts in accordance with IEC-60065
●Maximum Dimensions Width 465 mm (18-5/16)
Height 196 mm (7-11/16)
Depth 427 mm (16-13/16)
●Mass 23.9 kg (52.7 lbs) net
30.0 kg (66.1 lbs) in shipping carton
●Supplied Remote Commander RC-200
Remote control principle: Infrared pulse
Power supply: 3 V DC (IEC R03 batteries x 2)
Maximum dimensions: 56 mm × 75 mm × 26 mm
Mass: 153 g (including batteries)
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First of all, the Dynaudio C1 in the glossy rosewood finish is drop-dead gorgeous. If this speaker would perform well at lower listening levels as it does at higher levels, I would have bought a pair long before now.
My Accuphase E-550 can easily drive the large Amphion Xenons to levels that shake the brick walls in my home. |
I had C1s on 200 watt McIntosh and the power guards went off. ymmv, but i think they need power. |
I agree with everything said above especially the lower volume issues with these speakers. In a large room I just don't think a smallish amp is gonna cut it. Their impedance when measured was closer to 83 db. It's not a volume issue, anything will play them loud. .... It's a dynamic and subtlety issue that lower current amps cannot provide. |
The Accuphase E450 which has 180w sounds less powerful than the E560 with 30watts Class A.
In a small to medium room, the Class A Accuphase should be able to drive those C1s.
I heard the E550s drive those ATC SCM19s which are more power hungry than the C1s. Drove them to high levels but at extremely hi levels, the E550s could use some more power. But we are talking about real loud loud stuff.
Good luck. |
Indeed a strong case has been made for both the Class A and A/B. My impetus for going from the Revel Studios to C1s was down size. I was driving the Revels with 350mcx monos. That being said, I can attest to the C1s love affair with power. One would be hard pressed to win the curtain test when comparing these beauties along-side any floor standing 3 way up to 20K. They impressed me. Perhaps, as I read in a post E-450 E-550, the best solution is to Demo the set up. My other consideration which I have now placed into the mix is, the E-550 may? Limit the range/scope of future speakers. Just another thought. Thanks for everyones input. Still struggling. |
I am driving the C1's with a Jeff Rowland Concentra II, 150w into 8 ohms 250w into 4 ohms. This works fine but is probably the minimum I would find acceptable. I have also heard the C1's driven by Simaudio W7, this was not lacking for power either.
I have found the sound balance to be excellent at low levels with my set up, none of the hissy/tinkly sound you get with metal tweeters |
Roy, you should not think at future changes before actually having bought the whole system, viz. "the E-550 may? Limit the range/scope of future speakers". Since you plan to buy top of the line integrated and speakers (it is not clear to me whether you already have the C1s) make sure you are happy with both units as a whole but also separately. The E-550 is very powerful (much more than its 30 watts would suggest) and should have no problem to drive almost all monitors. I have seen this amp driving speakers like Wilson Sophia 2 and B&W 802D without a sweet. Though, if you listen to music that has large dynamic variation, e.g. big bands, than probably E-450 is a better choice whatever the speaker.
If you have already listen and liked the Dynaudio & Accuphase combination then choosing between the E-550 and E-450 integrated should not be difficult. The power meters should give you the answer. If you can not audition both amps in your room (for a few days) take your speakers to the dealer. Get the E-550 if it is not clipping when driving the C1s at levels you consider as being loud, otherwise buy the E-450. Sound-wise the two amps are very similar. Although, the E-550 is more musical and fluid than E-450, you can't possibly be happy with it if it can not deliver the SPL you want. |
Forget Accuphase integrateds and try the german amplifier ASR Emitter II (it's also an integrated amplifier with separate supply units). |
Okocza, price-wise the ASR Emitter II integrated is in the same class with the Accuphase separates, e.g. P7100 power amp & C-2410 pre amp. That is 3-4 times more expensive that the Accuphase integrated considered by Royearnest. |
It seems I was mistaken in my previous post. Here in Europe the Emitter 2 retails at around 13 thousands euros. That is a bit less than the retail price of the entry level Accuphase separates, i.e. P-4100 and C-2110, which retail at 13900 euros. When new, the E-550 was 8500 euro. Thus, it may be possible that the 2nd hand prices for the two units (E-550 and Emitter 2) are not that different. Sorry Okocza. |
To dig up an old post, does anyone know and have personal experience with the E-560 and the C1? 30w into 8ohms do not sound like much. Would a E-460 be more suitable? |
I have experience with the E-550 (also 30 watts into 8 ohms) and the C1s mk1. The E-550 had absolutely no problem to drive the C1s (see also my previous comments about the E-550 amp). The E-560 has more drive than the E-550, i.e. it sounds louder for a given volume settings.
The E-550 and the C1s made a wonderful combo that bested my current combo ( E-550 & Focal MicroBes) in almost all areas. |
Thanks, have you had the chance to listen to the e460 as well? |
Hi Kalibur,
First, regarding my previous post, I should add that I listen to rather low listen levels, i.e. 70-80 dBs. At these levels my E-550 still had at least 20 dBs of headroom before clipping. Whether or not this will be enough for you it will depends on the type of music you are listening. That is, it will most probably not be enough to reproduce the dynamics of large orchestras and big bands music, but it will be plenty for most other stiles (including rock and metal). Of course, I am assuming that you do not attempt to fill a large rooms with monitors and an integrated amp that delivers 30 watt into 8 ohms.
Secondly, the E-560 is very underrated. As the nominal impedance of the C1s is 4 ohms the E-550/E-560 will provide 60 watts which in reality will probably be something like 80 watts (maybe even 90 watts). When I bought my Accuphase combo, the E-550 literally kneeled a Bryston 4Bsst (300 watts into 8 ohms) and a Musical Fidelity A5 (250 Watts into 8 ohms) when driving the B&W 802D speakers.
I have listen only briefly to the new E-460 driving the B&W 805 diamonds and I did not compare it directly with its pure class A siblings. However, the 400 serie Accuphase integrated amps are very powerful (much more powerful the ones in the 500 serie).
As I have wrote in my first post in this thread (not to you though), in order to decide whether or not you need the more powerful A/B design you really need to listen both amps driving the C1s.
Good luck and let us know your findings!
Paul
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I have a C2 Signature and i had the chance of listening the Accuphase E 460 in my room and, frankly
speaking, I had not a good impression. At first I thought it could beat in every aspects my current
Rega Osiris. On the contrary, it could not match the Osiris in any aspect..power, transparence,
details, soundstage..in everything the E 460 could not be my choice.
Actually, a friend of mine who brought the E 460 to my house in order to compare it to the
Osiris ( he was almost closing the purchase of the E 460 since it was much better than his BAT
integrated amplifier ) At the end, He bought the Rega Osiris.
I know that it can be really difficult to think that the Osiris sounds better in all aspects
compared to Accuphase E 460 which is considered by most one of the best integrated amplifiers
already made and , please, I hope the Accuphase´s owners do not understand me wrong.....but it is a fact..at least in my room with the Dynaudios C2 Signature the Osiris sounded much better. |
