Acapella vs. Avantgarde


I currently run a Cary CD-306, Cary SLP-05 preamp, and Cary 805AE monoblocks with a pair of ProAc D38's (see system). The combination is sweet and involving, but the combo just does not boogie when asked to play a large orchestral piece, by Mahler/Wagner/Shostakovich. When the volume is turned up, dynamics are poor and the system starts to sound compressed. I suspect that the 50W Cary's simply does not have enough guts to drive the ProAc's, so I am considering replacing them with a more efficient speaker. Since most SET afficionadoes love horns, this led me to look into Avantgarde and Acapella.

I live in Melbourne, Australia. Avantgarde is available through a dealer here, but he does not have any in stock. The Acapella dealer is in Sydney (a plane flight away). I am looking to spend A$30,000 - which will buy a nice Avantgarde Duo, or a secondhand Acapella High Violon.

I have read plenty about the dynamics of the Avantgardes, but my concern is if they have horn coloration. Also, how do they image? Are they sensitive to room placement?

Would the Acapella High Violon's be a better buy, considering the pair I can potentially get my hands on have been heavily discounted? I have read that Acapella's suffer from disjointed sound because of the three different driver technologies (plasma tweeter, horn mids, conventional woofer). How much is this a problem? And are there any room placement issues? Given that the Acapella's have lower sensitivity (91 dB/W/m) would I be achieving a real upgrade by moving from the ProAc's?
amfibius

Showing 3 responses by gregm

Hi Amfi
He told me that the best result was always obtained by mono-amping,
Yup, well, that's also the most ruinous solution.
...and has something to do with the design of the Acapella crossover
Now that, I find difficult to understand. The xover dislikes multichannel amplification enclosures:)??

I'm sure you'll be fine as decided.
Another thought is, simply, to use any something for the bottom; try it using a borrowed Behringer and start out with 4order LR, see (hear) what happens. Or, simply, just passively biamp for now.
Cheers
So, I ordered the Violons.
Good for you!
I need to think about how I am going to drive them with my own meagre SET's...
Others have given comprehensive info.
My info comes from playing with Violons (& Campanile) using Mahler 5 (Barbirolli) & 2 (Klemperer), and a few other things. So, driving Violons & the Mahlerian or Wagnerian Orchestra:
1) You know and I can confirm that reproducing the musical illusion and impact of a full Wagnerian Orch is tricky. Worse, a fully blown Mahler 8.
2) Tricky No2: you have one unit and no horn, for mid and down.
The applicability of ONE amplification unit, working seamlessly fm dc to daylight, is questionable. You need to use two channels/side. However, this is tricky to do as the xover is set very high (normally you'd need the extra horn to go down to, say, ~100Hz) which means, well engineered amplification. So, I recommend you settle for ANYthing that can produce acceptable/good lower mids to mid-bass with yr speakers (i.e. ~60Hz upwards, this applies even with the "bass enhanced model, whatever they call it -- which is the one I played with). Many diy options in Ozz... so, do try. When find a selection of products that seem to work it's all about finding the one that blends sonically w/ yr SET. Forget the 40Hz range for the moment.
3) "What would be nicer":
If you could use an active xover with adjustable slopes, phase and attenuation prior to the amps -- despite the existance of the passive.
4) Depending on yr room & set-up possibilities, you may need to incorporate separate woofs (the ubiquitous "sub" woofs).
5) Check points:
Amplification: refer to upper mids & lower-mids as they are portrayed together, i.e. the piece you're listening to contains both ranges. Forget mids for now, and forget transparency/ amount of detail, etc. Focus only on how realistically these two ranges sound.
Positioning: work on getting the mid-bass right and the bass (such as it is) should suddenly appear out of nowhere. It's a matter of "coupling" the 2 lower units; there should be an optimum positioning range for this in yr room. In some cases, it;s a matter of less than 1". You;re playing w/ wavelengths is all -- no rocket science.

TO simplify things with the Violons, I used ss class A everywhere. I also tried hi-ish powered SETs everywhere (KR). I used the same amps for all channels; I also tried a very cheap xover (simply, a Behringer, that was laying around). I used a TVC, so no active pre stage. All of this was at a dealer's where equipment was readily available.

The result CAN be good, even on Mahler 8! I didn't use subwoofers -- but could have, most usefully so. I couldn't play very loud & this is relative to room size of course: when the ppp was easily discernible, the ffff was simply compressing. The room was large (~80 m2).
Cheers
Greg, why is mono-amping the most ruinous solution
I misunderstood this to mean, use MONO blocs all around... sorry!

I would agree however that passively biamping is expensive and only sometimes beneficial -- biwiring likewise.

As you imply, it's best to get a grip on the speakers first and see what can be done later.

Methinks I got carried away... pardon! It's clear that with the lowest crossing set at 800Hz, it's going to be very difficult to devise an active solution: the ear is still sensitive there.
Now, if you had another cross at say 100-80Hz...

Cheers