NSA? You mean the National Stereo Association? Aren't we all members already???
:) |
I must admit that although they get a tad boomy at times in my room and they don't extend as low or impactful as I want, the Nola Metro Gold I have on loan are wonderfully musical and engaging. I had a great midnight to 2am listening session with them last night. Probably so good because I couldn't play at my usual listening level. Needed to keep it down. It was wonderful.
So many good speakers. Just hard to find one with everything. |
Anyone have any experience with the PMC MB2 SE, MB2 XBD SE or BB5 SE?? |
Hi Josh.
A few companies are going in the direction of all in one solutions. Diavalet, Goldmund and Kyron come to mind. There are others that are just not coming to me right now. They must stand on their own feet in comparison to separate systems, and do with great success in many cases. To some, it's a step off of the upgrade train; no more cable obsessing, etc. To others, it's an inconceivable blasphemy. Listen, learn and decide. That's what I'm doing. You can't look at any part as an individual entity since it is designs as a whole system.
I am heading tomorrow to hear the Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate and the Avalon Isis. I also have finalized an in home audition of the T&F Isis and potentially the PMC MB2 SE. I'll keep you posted on those as more info becomes available. |
Hi all. Sorry, was up in Tanglewood yesterday seeing the yearly Movie Soundtrck concert. John Williams was supposed to conduct but he developed back problems. It was amazing.
I went Friday and hear the Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate and the Avalon Isis. CU for the second time in a better room and with much better gear, Avalon Isis for the first time and setup in a private dedicated room with all top tear Spectral gear.
The CU pushed every button just right. The base was limitless, taught, clean, accurate, dynamic and with proper decay. Quite bluntly the best base I have heard, ever. The mids were magical, engaging and proper with a sense of texture and layering that only the Tenors have shown me. Complexity and subtlety at the same time. The highs are correct, extended, with no sense of harshness or shout. The soundstage was huge and very deep and imaging was accurate and it all Added up to a 3 dimensional experience. I really really liked them. They were accurate, without being hifi and musical without being warm or colored.
The Isis were, quite simply, too big for the room they were in and for my room as well. The Time would have been a much better model choice for my needs and for the room size. But what I heard impressed me in many ways and taught me much at the same time. I thought the 60" pulled the image too high and it felt awkward and unnatural, especially hearing the piano floating 3' above the floor. The tone was proper enjoyable but the 1" diamond tweeter struggled to extend without losing its magic and the twin massive woofers overwhelmed the room and were a bit tubby and lacked a sense of pace and rhythm. I think that was both room and equipment related though. The image was a bit far back for my tastes. I was frequently impressed by its scale and specific attributes I heard, but not once truly engaged and lost in the moment. I have heard the Time is a tad more revealing then the Isis, and I truly wish I had heard those as well. But extrapolating the Isis to the Time, with a similar driver complement but smaller in scale, I can get a pretty good idea of what they are all about.
The Avalon and Coltrane Tenor use similar drivers in a similar configuration and, to my ears, represent similar goals and styles. I preferred why the Coltranes do.
I will speak with Bob this coming week to get my ears on the Goldmund to give you guys and myself an opinion.
I also am trying to arrange an in home audition for the T&F Isis and maybe the PMC as well.
I was practically mesmerized by the Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate though. And it has catapulted to #1 by a pretty nice margin. |
I heard them in a completely untreated 17x20 room with 8' ceilings. And they sounded fan-dam-tastic!
They are a modified bottom port/isobaric design and are very very room friendly. 17" wide and 25" deep. I think they will be ok. Not as petite at the Tenors. I'll let you know since I arranged a trade for my MM3's plus some cash for a pristine pair. I'm hoping they will be here within 2 weeks.
Then I can A/B them directly with the T&F Isis and the PMC MB2. I have to say that if they sound as good as they did when I last heard them, I may make the official decision to not even try the Isis or BM2. We shall see.
But this could be the one. |
I forgot to mention that the 6 drivers integrated better then anything I have ever heard. From ultra bottom to uber top they were seamless. Truly seamless. It sounded like a single driver speaker. And no, that strange upside down driver configuration does not drag the image down. It's right where it's supposed to be and sounds incredible.... |
Don't worry Wisnon, I gotcha.
I'm going to try to find time to get into the city in the next few weeks to hear them. I'll call Bob when I can figure out a window to go. Bob is close enough that they are certainly worth a listen. I will admit openly that I'm not ready just yet to jump off the separates roller coaster. So they would have to totally blow me away for any real consideration.
Also, I have not been able to figure out if the Prologos is rear or bottom ported..... |
Norman, the Kii Three is imported by GTT which is a 25 minute drive from my house. Bill is a nice guy. He imported the Grimm also. I'm going to call and see if I can hear the Kii one of these days. He's always up for a listening session and my curiosity is piqued. Not for purchase as much as to hear what a dedicated NCORE amplified speaker system can do. I still own my Merrill Veritas amps and think they are just crazy good for the money. The Kii supposedly have the newest version of the NCORE plus a whole lot of dsp and digital correction to overcome the room. Very curious to hear how it sounds.
I'll let you all know when I go. |
Hi all. I'm going to call Bob today to see what he has on display so I can listen. I guess that with the DSP and all gear internal, they should sound relatively similar room to room; so they should sound essentially their best no matter where they are.
I spoke with Bill at GTT and the Kii 3 will be arriving just before RMAF. I may be able to get a listen in before they get shipped out. Kii doesn't really use DSP to correct for the room, it just uses creative speaker and digital wizardry to remove the back wall from the equation, which I have proven first hand can make a huge difference. I'll report as I hear things.
The Nola Metro Gold left yesterday and my Dynaudio Ultimates should be arriving tomorrow, although I need to get them into the basement which will require men more manly then myself..... I'll keep you posted on that as well. |
I'm not decided until they are in my room, properly set up and blow me away. I hold final reports until the Ultimate's are settled and well burned in. I also am looking forward to the T&F Isis arriving to do a direct in room shoot out of those 2 amazing speakers. I feel like I'm coming close to a final decision though.
I, honestly, haven't really given much analytical thought to the M1. Once the Ultimate's are set up and I get their flavor I will compare the 2 dac's. I've been dying to do a comparison, but without a speaker I am familiar with I felt a dac comparison wouldn't be accurate and a valid report. I want my reports to always be reliable.
I promise that if the Ultimate's are it, or the Isis, then a comparison of a few DAC's will be imminent. |
I have confirmed I will be going to RMAF all 3 days.
Anyone else going? |
Wisnon and Agear - I'll do my best to hear the Goldmund when I can. I don't think it's too far fetched to believe that Goldmund has been able to accomplish true high end performance in a one box, lifestyle like package. As with all things Audiophile it just becomes a matter of their level of performance and their voicing; and if it suits the buyers needs, desire and style of listening.
These are 2 ways to get your system tuned in:
1) put in the work and effort to properly set up your room and your speakers (or pay someone to do it).
2) rely on new, SOTA, dsp solutions to put your speakers where you (or your wife) want them to fit the style of the room and leave the room as is.
Is #2 inferior to #1 ? I don't have the experience to say yes or no. But if option #1 is not possible due to WAF, room or budget restrictions than it is nice to have option #2 available for those who can afford it and want the pedrance.
Will option #2 one day guarantee better sound than option #1? Maybe. I would guess a combo of the two will yield the best results in the long run.
We shall see. |
The Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate's are in my garage. Arrived today to fanfare and hooplah, well, i was excited. The MM3's have left the building. I just hope they make a safe trip to their new temporary home.
Now I am waiting to hear from my trusty moving company to see when they can send over their standard two big guys to help me get these 250 pound each baby's into my listening room in the basement. The wait will kill me. I'm hoping Monday or Wednesday.....
I also touched base with Bob from Profundo about the Isis. They should be shipping out next week. Keep your fingers crossed everyone, and by 2 weeks from today I should have both set up and trying them out. Yay.
Is anyone else coming to RMAF? I'd love to walk around with some of you guys, and/or meet up after for dinner and drinks. Maybe NFS will be there and we can hang and listen and drink some good wine.... |
The Consequence Ultimate have arrived. It took 4 big guys to get the 320 pound crates from the garage to the basement, and one utterly impatient neurotic audiophile to unpack and set them up alone! Oy mi'back!
I'm letting them steep as we speak. It's 1:01am. I can't play the stereo too loud but at quiet volumes and with nothing warmed up I'm encouraged by my early findings. Tone is correct and there is an incredible depth and complexity, even at low volume. I'm getting the same feel I got in the store - live music. I need to play a lot with placement. They are big, but don't overwhelm the space nor limit placement, at least not as far as I can tell just yet.
I'm listening with the Bricasti M1 since it was last hooked up. I need to get my ODSE back in to return my system to its base. Once I get used to everything I owe everyone a comparison of the ODSE and M1.....
Stay tuned. |
Please feel free to view my updated photos on my Virtual System page.
All new pictures are up. |
I feel I'm progressing towards a final speaker. The Ultimate's just may be the one. I need time to go listen and enjoy the system, and that's always the one thing I can't afford.
I'll keep you posted. No word yet on when the Isis will be shipped. |
I have been spending every moment of my time working and getting my backyard project done. I took 15 min to listen and got called by my wife upstairs. Sigh.
There is an occasional Balcony affect. I don't know why it's not dramatic because it makes sense that it should be. The balcony affect is 75% psychological because your brain just tells you it should be that way. But it's occasional; not frequent. It's either there or it's not there; it's musical piece dependent and very infrequent. I have not played at all with placement and I think the Balcony affect is very placement dependent and I can make it disappear with meticulous placement. When I heard it at the store, it had absolutely no balcony affect at any time; not on any track at all. Which tells me it's placement dependent.
The low frequency extension is taught and limitless. Like nothing I have ever heard. I am going away for 4 days. When I get back I am going to measure the room to see how low my room actually goes. My length from bottom front corner to top rear corner is about 27'. But that physics isn't 100% accurate because there are other factors at play that help to augment those lower frequencies. The Double Bass measured flat in my room 25hz to 20kHz. I'll report on that when I measure it. |
My stereo can't make cups float....
But I wish it could. That's SO cool!!!! Lol.
I'm away until Monday. Kids start school Tuesday and the schedule returns to a more normal insanity then the transition from summer to school time. Wednesday and Friday morning will be dog eared for stereo play. I can't wait !!! |
The Isis have shipped and are on their way. |
I would assume GTT will only rave about a product he will be distributing. But he will have it for me to hear at his place and he will be showing them at RMAF. Our ears will tell..... |
Scheduled delivery for 9/16 between 11 and 3.
Im praying I have a decent amount of free time tomorrow to give the Ultimates some real listening time. And the M1 dac as well. I'll keep you posted. |
They are in the state. They called today to schedule.
I took the earliest delivery date they had available. |
ODSE vs. Bricasti M1 - wow a post that actually resembles the thread title!
I'm going to hold opinions about the new Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate speakers for now, other then to say they are truly statement level and are utterly unforgiving to anything upstream that can't deliver the goods.. "Just the facts." Nothing more, nothing less. Oh, and to say that they are forcing me to re-evaluate and manipulate my room treatments; and I have completely and utterly eliminated the balcony affect with careful placement but I have not yet optimized them.
I spent several hours with the Bricasti M1 running with the Total DAC usb filter/cable and then put the ODSE back in and kept the Total DAC USB in to keep things even. And then I compared the Total DAC filter/cable to my current Wireworld Platinum Starligh USB with Empirical Audio Block Filter on my familiar ODSE to see if I could hear any differences.
The Bricasti M1 is a wonderful DAC with many adjustments and settings to fine tune the sound to your liking, reminiscent of the multitude of setting on my Esoteric CD/DAC. I settled in on one setting, that was what the dealer had suggested as well, after trying all the settings out. I don't remember the name but I'll check and post it. To me it gave me the best of all worlds and allowed the M1 to catwalk and keep me most engaged.
What I found most interesting was how different it sounded with difference source material. Truly a chameleon. It's ability to essentially shape shift from Liszt to Bob Dillon and give what each required, or demanded, was most impressive. This is a DAC that can do it all without struggling. Punch, drive, subtly, refinement, with a slightly forward feel and a wide but not expansive soundstage. Not meticulously accurate or HiFi, just correct. I found the tone and texture proper but missed that last element of complexity and true layer that my ODSE and the Rowland Aeris excel at. The M1 was wonderful at extracting the pace and rhythm of the track and bringing you along for the ride while rarely if ever thinking about what it was doing right or wrong. I found it lacking, subtly, at the extremes.
M1 out, ODSE back in. Snap!
There was my layering, my complexity, my ability to hear deeper into the music and the venue. The soundstage opened up significantly, imaging clarified with a finer sense of place and space and everything spread apart front to back with feet between front and backstage. Extremes were, well, extreme. The most significant difference was speed. The ODSE is lightning fast.
I know I've become a broken record, but this little ODSE is a massive achievement and remains in my rack as another DAC has come and gone.
I am hoping to borrow the Aesthetix Romulus Signature to hear it and I may be able to get my hands on the new top tier Meitner Emm Labs DAC as well. I'll let you know if I can. I'm also dying to hear an MSB DAC in my system.
The Total DAC USB/filter cable vs my Starlight Platinum with Short Block.....
Really subtle differences. Both are excellent. I would say the Total DAC is a hair softer and warmer while the Starlight/Short Block a bit less so. Not huge; not even big. Not enough to justify a purchase. I have 3 different speaker wire in my room currently, and all 3 offered way more significant changes in voicing and performance then did the usb cable swap.
Hope that was worth waiting for. Sorry to those M1 lovers. It's an amazing DAC. But to my ears, in my system the ODSE was more to my taste.
I will post about the speakers in another few days. They need more fine tuning, room adjustment and cable swaps. And the Isis will arrive next Wednesday, so there's still that..... :) |
Trenner & Friedl : Isis.
I heard the Avalon Isis in a private home of a dealer who has them set up very well, and they are too big for my room and not to my taste.
The Consequence Ultimate are pushing many of my buttons. They have a bit of a shout to them, which they did not have at all either time I heard them in the store. So I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from. I'm adjusting treatments and moving the speakers about to adjust them.
The Isis will be here Wednesday. I'll keep everyone posted. |
Guido - excellent point. I can't imagine these speakers have many hours on them at all. They are essentially brand new. Thank you for reminding me of my core processes. I will immediately start burning them in, I'll bet that's it.
Audiolabyrinth - The T&F are made in Austria, Dynaudio are Danish and Marten are Swedish. Those are my 3 front runners right now. The JBL DD-67000 are dual 15" drivers and are 38" wide; way too big for my small room. I have heard them and they are great, but not a match for my needs.
Bill_K - I measured the Lawrence Audio Double Bass while I had them on loan and they measured practically flat as a line in my room. They were technically exceptional, and completely uninvolving. I was fascinated by the many peaks and valleys of the Coltrane Tenor and the magic they created. My new Consequence Ultimates measure even worse then the Tenors did, but the proof and truth is in the ear of the beholder, not the measurements.... I know John Atkinson disagrees...
If all goes well, I will shortly be comparing the Emm Labs DAC 2X with the Aesthetix Romulus Sig, and my ODSE. Keep your fingers crossed. |
Hi Bill. I am very familiar with Faber. The Strads are sensational and the Amati Futura is as well. Their new Lilium is stunning. The Strads and Futura are both rear ported and won't work in my room. And i spoke at length with the guys at Faber about the Lilium and the consensus was that with the top firing woofer and unique poring system it would be a hit or miss in my size room. No one was willing to put them in my room to try, so I moved on....
Abedirov - I would be happy to try it but I'm not willing to buy one to do so. The guys at Lampy have offered me a Baby 7 to try, and I look forward to that. I'll post if that happens. |
Hi Ray. You pour your cold water and add ice. But throw in a few strawberries, some rum and use a blender; tastes better that way. :)
My digressions know no boundaries. I have taken this fun thread on a wild ride thrugh Uber Speaker Land and I think we have all come out better for it. Or at least refreshed and ready to attack the DAC with renewed fervor.
With that said, I apologize to Ray to report to those interested that the Isis arrived today. I now need to get them downstairs and hook them up and listen. They are well broken in from what I understand and should sound Bizang within a day or so of hook up. I'm really looking forward to this! I'm a little nervous since I own the Consequences and am worried that I might like the Isis better and will need to move the Consequence. But the Consequence has proven a serious state of the art contender and is tough competition for any newcomer. We shall see. I'm burning the Consequences in now and plan on getting 500-1000 hours on them as quick as I can. Running them 24/7.
I am happy to report to Ray and the other DAC loving followers that I have confirmed an Emm Labs DAC2X inbound next Friday as well as the Allnic DHT DAC around the same time (along with an Antipodes DX) and I think I have secured an audition the an MSB DAC V and a Lampy Baby 7.
So lots coming up to report.
I'm also auditioning an Ethernet/USB audiophile grade distribution hub that looks very interesting. I don't know if I can report who makes it yet as the manufacturer US rep is sending it to me to evaluate for them. But I'll check and report as things happen. |
Actually, I'd settle for a pint of Guinness.....
:) |
1 speaker is downstairs, the other is still in the garage. My 14 year old helped me get one down but he had to leave for a school function. I'm hoping he can help me get the other down tonight. I should have everything set up by Saturday. Fingers crossed. |
Abe- the MSB has the Quad DAC.
The JBL synthesis stuff has never focused on going super low. Even their theater speakers only go down to the mid 50's. It's a design philosophy, although if you hear their higher end speakers they don't sound like their limited. They are very natural sounding.... |
Guido, that is what I have been in search of. I want a speaker with the tonal accuracy and proper coherence of the Die Muzik with more low end extension, bottom or front ported and in a petite package. Is that asking too much??? The Tenor seams to be the closest thing to that this far in a small package. I'm still having issues with shout with the Consequences, which is driving me batty because they had none at the store demo. It's bordering on fatiguing, which is making me want to cry. I can't figure it out.... But I shall not give up.
Isis is still one up, one down. My son has been busy with school work and today be was out at a marching band performance/football game. I'm picking him up at 10:30. I can't, in good conscience, ask the poor kid to sharp a 200 pound crate into the basement with me after a 16 hour day.....
I'm hoping tomorrow and then I can set them up. |
I'm ready to start drinking. I have read over every review of the Consequence Ultimate and talked with many people who know the Consequence Ultimate well and nowhere, in review or discussion, does anyone report or hear what I am complaining of. Nor did I hear it at the store. Other then the bit of a shout (and it's not harsh or truly fatiguing-it's just bothering me considering how much $$$$$ I have into them), I love the speaker. They vanish even though they are a large cabinet and the throw a wonderfully wide and deep soundstage. They are tonally accurate and multi layered with wonderfully accurate leading and trailing edges.
I'm not giving up. But I will pull them for a bit to give the Isis a good listen.
I had a local dealer drop off an Allnic D5000 DHT DAC and Antipodes DX server. Cool!!! I'll report mid next week on this as well. |
Remember Guido - the reason I looked past Die Muzik is the rear port issue which activates mucho nodes in the room. Adding more base would have been a disaster....
I agree that if the shout doesn't settle with burn in then a Master Set may be in order. Unless the Isis blow me away; they will be moved down today and set up by tomorrow at the latest.
As I said, I have heard the Ultimates myself in other locations and I just loved them. I think the shout is somehow due to my room, I just can't figure out how to correct it. It's a labour of love....
I do have a LOT of DAC's coming my way. The Allnic D5000 and an Antipodes DX arrived yesterday. So I have a LOT of work to do. |
Paul - I don't disagree that the mini is a weak link, but it has never caused a shout before. and I have had a LOT of speakers grace my room.
Why now with the Consequence Ultimates?
-Is it that it has a lower sensitivity (84db) and demands more power to drive it and thus highlights my systems inadequacies?
-Are the CU's just not burned in yet as Guido suggests?
-Are the CU so accurate that they are revealing something upstream that was previously not discernible?
-Do the CU have such low distortion that I'm just playing them way louder then anything else in my room thus far and I'm overdriving my room?
-Are the quasi-horn loaded/ring radiated drivers just not plying nicely in my smallish room? Am I sitting to close to them?
I know not the answers to these questions. I feel that the CU is teetering on the edge of nirvana and I just need to know what to adjust to get it there....
But your suggestion is spot on. I was initially going to compare the ODSE and D5000 using my familiar Mac Mini source but I'll try the DX first in a brief head to head to see if the shout is still there. Could it be that easy??? I hope so!!! |
Musicmann1 - I have heard the Evidence Platinum. I didn't love it. That's why I was skeptical about the Consequence but I was wrong; the CU had everything the Evidence lacked. Interestingly, the Evidence Platinum is advertised as their flagship speaker but it costs ten grand LESS then the Consequence Ultimate. They market the Consequence Ultimate a different way since its been in essentially constant production since 1984. I think the CU is their finest product.
I need to clarify that the shout I am hearing has not been heard in any other room I listened to it in (and I heard it in 2 very different rooms at the store) nor has it been identified by an other reviewer. I am convinced it is a byproduct of my room or breakin. We shall see.
Agear - thanks. That's good to know. |
Thanks Paul - that's VERY helpful and I think that's my issue. The shout is not all the time and it's not on every track. It's almost exclusively vocals (not all vocals, only sometimes) although I get it on occasion on clarinet or oboe. It almost sounds like clipping or dynamic compression which would go along with what you said. I'm going to pull out my trusty LP's and do a little experiment....
Abe - I haven't tried the DX enough to compare it honestly. I am thinking on first listen, that surprisingly my low frequencies are a bit tighter and better controlled with my Mac mini. The soundstage seams more open with the DX and there is a layer of detail and complexity that I think the DX is revealing. But that's with like 45 minutes of listening time. And thanks for the heads up on running time. I'll leave it on 24/7.
The DX is intriguing. Let's see how it compares with more time. |
MusicMann - I was under the impression that the Evidence was $60k. The Consequence are $70k retail. I stand corrected. But I was not blown away with the Evidence and I heard it twice.
And the Kharma Exquisite speaker line is exceptional but rear ported and thus not a good choice for my room. The Midi Exquisite blew me away, but just wouldn't work for me.
I may end up admitting that the CU doesn't work for me after burn in and all. I have had many exceptional speakers in my room with my current gear and have never experienced a shout before. Which tells me that, logically, it's got to be the speaker. But I don't want to believe that.
I'm going to hook up the Isis speakers today and I'll let yo know my impressions.
I'm also going to bring the CU out into my open basement area and try them there to see if there is still a shout. |
Agear - I want to give them 2-3 days to settle. But here is a quick impression. If speakers were like electronics then the CU would be on the solid state side and the Isis would be SET tubes with base. Musical, warm, complex and layered. Like drinking your favorite red wine that you know and love instead of trying the hosts super expensive '47 Chateu Expensivo. I don't want to say they lack detail and high end extension, because they don't. But they don't express accuracy overtly; it's subtle. It's refined accuracy. They sound like they use a big soft dome tweeter that's horn loaded. It's like getting hugged by a huge soft cuddly teddy bear.
They are big and they look like an old tube RCA tube TV set. But they don't do anything bad in my room. No nodes activated, a very subtle shout seldom comes out but does show that it has a horn loaded tweeter.
The Tenor are smack dab in between the Isis and the CU. a world class system can easily be built around any of the three. I need to figure out which works best with what I have. I feel, on first impression, that I would need to reconsider my amp/preamp if I went with the Isis.
I hate giving such stark first impressions but the Isis seam easy to read and very obviously built to accomplish a certain task, to sound sweat and intricate, like a fine dessert wine. I can see their size making room setup tough at a show, but the speaker has a sound that clearly grabs people from the hallway and says " come in and sit. Relax and take a break from the insanity of high fi and let me play you some music."
I can say that the more I listen to them, the more I want to listen to more music. But they make me feel just a little bit stoned and a little bit like I have earplugs in my ears. |
Abe - how do I assign music folders on my Mac to play on the DX??
I have folders with music files and my iTunes folder that I want to assign to the DX so I can play them and I just can't figure out how to do that. |
Agear - there is a rolled off top end that makes me feel like I'm missing something. Like I said, it's like I have earplugs in and just can't hear those top registers.
Your statement is interesting about more seasoned, more mature listeners gravitating toward the Isis. With the older person's hearing attenuated in the upper frequencies it makes sense that those listeners would be most drawn to a speaker that is very musical and lacks extension since they won't hear the deficit. It deserves 2-3 days of burn in and way more placement manipulation. But I can easily see it being an end of search speaker for the more seasoned listener. |
No time for listening. Sigh. Been so busy trying to get everything done before RMAF. Leaving very early Friday morning.
Anyone else going??? |
Agear - The distributor suggests small wood blocks. Not points. So they are on small wood blocks.
I played with the placement based on his suggestions and they have opened up some. I also think running them in has helped. I'm going to hold off until tomorrow or Wednesday for real impressions. |
A true classic Agear! Beethoven only wished he could write quality tunes like that! |
Guys, this is not a matter of flat vs not flat. We are talking about crazy expensive, top tier product in all directions. I'm sure all of them are "flat" from the sublimely low frequency to the ridiculous ultra sonic. It's not a matter of specs, and I don't believe it's a matter of distortion. Every speaker I have heard, tried, or purchased is considered state of the art, whether it was to my taste or not. To say that the Avalom Isis or the Vandy 7 or the Dynaudio Comsequence has more distortion or isn't flat or is in some way colored is pretty much ridiculous. These speakers are all designed to the best of their perspective companies abilities with their particular take on Uber Speaker design, acoustics, psycho-acoustics, phase/time alignment management, voicing, etc. Add to that the fact that even the worlds perfect speaker will sound totally different in my room versus your room and it makes the whole damn process that much harder.
The Trenner & Friedl Isis is simply voiced differently then the CU. It has different priorities, completely different design and different psycho-acoustic properties. As a result, it does 28hz to 40khz flat and throws a soundstage you can drive an RV through. It's voiced a certain way and accomplishes it's particular goal with great success. It does this with simplicity, elegance, refinement and is utterly understated. It is the warm cabin on top of the mountain with a roaring fire, a well broken in leather chair by the blazing hearth and a glass of Cognac VSOP that is that perfect temperature to simply float from the glass and evaporate relaxation onto your palate.
The CU is a masterpiece in engineering and complexity of design, crossover implementation and artistic beauty. It applied over 30 years of continued success from a brilliantly unorthodox design and improved upon it. It is not understated nor is it overzealous. Although brimming with drivers, it's nigh impossible to identify anything other then a unity of sound, a meticulous amalgam of perfection that paints a picture as if from a single brush stroke. Yes, the colors are more vibrant then those chosen by Trenner & Friedl but equates to comparing the spectacular colors of a sunset over the ocean as the sun descends just to the horizon to the majestic flow of heather and wheat during a gentle breeze at the base of a grey and white mountain range of breathtaking beauty. One is simply not better then the other. They both touch the sole and enraptured the spirit.
It's a nice place to be- deciding between those vistas. No bad choices, only choices.
An extended audition is truly the best way to tell. I would call an extended audition a purchase. The beauty of it is that if one finds its not all it was initially, the other option is just a sale and a purchase away.... |
CTSooner - my final decision against the Vandy 7 had to do with how their low frequency driver is implemented. I understand all the tech behind the low frequency signal attenuation prior to amplification and the fact that it "theoretically" conveys the voice of the amp to the woofer but I don't believe it to be 100% effective in real life application. It works, but it's best implementation would be with Vandys own amps. I wasn't ready to give up completely the magic that comes from my Burmester Amps in those lower frequencies. I also didn't love the down firing, side ported design. I heard it and felt it but I did not get that direct radiation I prefer. In the end, It was just a matter of implementation and preference. They are sensational without doubt, but I found other choices suited my tastes more. |
Ah Guido, I can't afford a wife and a mistress. But I want to give both of my lusty wenches the opportunity to settle in and move past the first few dates entering into phase 2, really getting to know to her, or them.
Agear - speed dating sounds fun but has its costs. I do, admittedly, like to taste everything on the buffet table before going back for a big helping of seconds of my few favorites. |
Thanks Wisnon.
The DX has been on since Sunday and is warmed up and, I believe, ready to audition and compare. I'm hoping to get that done today.
The Isis have stabilized and have sounded consistent for the past 36 hours with no discernible change. My neighbor came over yesterday, I left him alone for 90 minutes in my room, and then came out and told me to order a pair for him on the spot. I have swapped out my Burmester amps for my Merrill Veritas monoblocks with the Isis as I find their absolutely neutral presentation, unlimited dynamics and lightning fast speed to better suit the warmer aura the Isis provides.
Hopefully the dealer will be over today to retube the D5000 Allnic DAC so I can start playing with that as well.
I will try to get you solid, honest impressions ASAP. I have a lot of gear in and more is coming. I'm trying to make a game plan and some decisions as quickly as my time permits. |
He's buying the Veritas off me. He a LOVED the combo.
I didn't play him the Dynaudio. He was juiced for the T&F and had no interest in hearing anything else. They pushed his buttons and he was done. |
I had already advised my neighbor to pursue a Rowland Corus preamp to sublimely mate with the Veritas and the Isis. He had emailed T&F directly to ask what solid state electronics they suggest and he was informed that T&F voice the speakers with Rowland gear, and occasionally Burmester and Crayon. So it seams the Veritas and Rowland combo will work as well as I suspected. If he wants to upgrade to the new 625 series 2 Rowland amps utilizing the NCore module later, or go for the 825, it's a natural progression and the Veritas is easily sellable. As I said, I prefer the Veritas over the Burmester on the Isis. I know of Crayon but have not heard them.
Heading down to listen now. |
